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Old 06-06-2014, 10:03 AM
 
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They weren't completely idle. I'm pretty sure they were rehearsing their Surrender. Prepping white flags, etc.

I kid I kid
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Old 06-06-2014, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,139 posts, read 22,712,322 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouldy Old Schmo View Post
Why did the French military not undertake any serious operations in the early months of World War Two that could have kept the Germans from invading and defeating them later on?
They didn't sit on their hands, they just suffered from poor leadership and lack of innovation. In the 30's, France pretty much prepared for WWI all over again... they wasted tons of money and resources on building things like the Maginot Line and the impressive but obsolete Richelieu class battleships, mistakes that a country of somewhat limited means like France just could not afford to make.

Of course, when the Panzers started rolling across the borders they had internal leadership problems rather than unity, sealing France's fate and and splitting the country into Vichy France and the Free French under De Gaulle.
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Old 06-06-2014, 11:12 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
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Originally Posted by Chango View Post

Of course, when the Panzers started rolling across the borders they had internal leadership problems rather than unity, sealing France's fate and and splitting the country into Vichy France and the Free French under De Gaulle.
That is incorrect. France was split into occupied France and Vichy France.
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Old 06-07-2014, 09:30 AM
 
3,910 posts, read 9,425,349 times
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Originally Posted by John-UK View Post
The combined French and UK air forces could have disrupted the German columns without doubt. The French Dewoitine D.520 was state of the art fighter and a match for any German plane. The relations between the French air forces and army was poor. The Luftwaffe did not dominated the skies over the battlefields in France. The RAF had air superiority over Dunkirk and gave the Luftwaffe their first defeat. The German troops and tanks were able to march into France because the British and French were going the other way.

The Germans did not have superior equipment. The only thing superior was the radio communications between tanks. 50% of German tanks only had machine guns.

Even after the Dunkirk pocket was formed the French and British could have driven a wedge between the German army which was in a long line from Germany. The Blitzkrieg was now useless. Large French forces were to the south and the Dunkirk pocket could have dug in with air superiority with the new Spitfire first appearing in France - it shot down German bombers over the UK previously. A plan was drawn up to counter attack. It was shelved and retreat (evacuation) was chosen by the British. All studies decades after show it would have had a high probability of success.
You have no evidence to back that up. Can you provide a source? Or should we accept what you say on blind faith?

The French had SOME planes that were state of the art, but also had MANY planes that were obsolete. The French air force in May 1940 only had about 700 planes going up against about 3000+ Luftwaffe. The French air force was small and weak, as the French did not invest nearly the same resources into building a modern air force as did England or Germany during the interwar years. France was late to the party and finally started playing catch-up by 1939-40, but it was too little too late. The lack of a large, formidable modern air force doomed France.

"The Luftwaffe did not dominated the skies over the battlefields in France. The RAF had air superiority over Dunkirk and gave the Luftwaffe their first defeat. The German troops and tanks were able to march into France because the British and French were going the other way."

Yes. They did. You act as if Dunkirk was the entire battle. It was a small battle in a large theater, and was not the decisive battle. It was a diversion battle and was only successful in allowing the BEF to evacuate, not in defending France. The RAF performed well in Dunkirk because it is close to England, where most of the RAF was based. The RAF was virtually useless in defending most of France because they had few planes in France. The defense of France was left mostly up to the French with a small contingent of British RAF.

The Luftwaffe achieved vast superiority in numbers over the decisive battlefield in France, specifically in the Meuse/Sedan region where the Panzers broke through. The Luftwaffe concentrated over 1000 planes on the Allied main armies in Belgium, and over 1000 additional planes on the Sedan area in a 2 pronged attack to coincide with ground operations. The French/Allied air forces were unable to match the Luftwaffe's numbers in this region. The Allies could only match the Luftwaffe in the northern campaign, but not the southern campaign. The southern campaign was the decisive campaign. The RAF achieving "air superiority" over Dunkirk had no impact on the German Army Group A advancing further south.

So in summary, France was trying to defend all of France and Belgium with only 700-1000 planes from a Luftwaffe attacking with around 3000-3500 planes. The RAF was able to contribute over 1000 planes to the campaign, but most of the RAF was utilized in Northern Belgium/Holland area fighting for their lives to defend the encircled Allied armies. The main German attack was further south and the combined Allied forces had an inadequate number of planes for defense. The Luftwaffe's ability to control the skies over the decisive battlefield allowed German ground movements to go rapidly, while French ground movements were shelled into submission.
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