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I don't think you guys understood my question regarding if there's any other group of people that have had their names, heritage, and culture completely stripped to the point where their descendants would have no chance of discovering or ever accurately knowing their real names, heritage, or ancestral culture as is the case with African Americans. I do appreciate the comments though.
I don't think you guys understood my question regarding if there's any other group of people that have had their names, heritage, and culture completely stripped to the point where their descendants would have no chance of discovering or ever accurately knowing their real names, heritage, or ancestral culture as is the case with African Americans. I do appreciate the comments though.
Instead of a thread asking "is there another group who has suffered etc" you would have reflected what appears to be your position had you made it "No group other than African Americans has..etc"
Say everyone here conceded your position, that no group has ever had their identities ripped away etc to the degree that this has fallen on African Americans. Then what would you wish to be done about it if anything?
My mother was adopted. her real parents had split when she was five years old and dumped her in an orphanage rather than one of them trying to raise her alone. Understandably bitter about this, my mother erased her real parents from her mind entirely, refused to ever talk about them, and carried whatever she knew about them to her grave.
Thus, on my mother's side I know doo dap diddly about my ancestry, it could be most anything. I cannot say that I have experienced a lesser life for not knowing, so I'm wondering what you find to be price African Americans are actually paying for not knowing their precise ancestry. My mother was white, so I'm guessing she had European ancestors. It seems a reasonable guess that if you are black, you had African ancestors. So, we both have narrowed it down to a continent.
Instead of a thread asking "is there another group who has suffered etc" you would have reflected what appears to be your position had you made it "No group other than African Americans has..etc"
Say everyone here conceded your position, that no group has ever had their identities ripped away etc to the degree that this has fallen on African Americans. Then what would you wish to be done about it if anything?
My mother was adopted. her real parents had split when she was five years old and dumped her in an orphanage rather than one of them trying to raise her alone. Understandably bitter about this, my mother erased her real parents from her mind entirely, refused to ever talk about them, and carried whatever she knew about them to her grave.
Thus, on my mother's side I know doo dap diddly about my ancestry, it could be most anything. I cannot say that I have experienced a lesser life for not knowing, so I'm wondering what you find to be price African Americans are actually paying for not knowing their precise ancestry. My mother was white, so I'm guessing she had European ancestors. It seems a reasonable guess that if you are black, you had African ancestors. So, we both have narrowed it down to a continent.
I don't understand why you have what seems to me to be a condescending tone. I'm sorry to hear about your situation, but it's the exception, not the rule. Most White people can effortlessly rattle off what their ancestry is. If your mother was adopted and she knows her last name, you've just narrowed down where in Europe she's most likely from.
I don't think you guys understood my question regarding if there's any other group of people that have had their names, heritage, and culture completely stripped to the point where their descendants would have no chance of discovering or ever accurately knowing their real names, heritage, or ancestral culture as is the case with African Americans. I do appreciate the comments though.
You're not talking about black people per se, as there are plenty of black people around the world who can trace their history back. American blacks are not the sum of black people in the world of course. Your original post said "race", seemingly equating "African Americans" with "black people".
In short, to answer your question, every single racial group has portions thereof had their names, heritage and culture stripped. Languages suppressed or outlawed, religions forcibly suppressed, land taken away, people forcibly relocated, to the point where their past is lost to their descendants. Plus, every single human racial group has had a subgroup thereof subject to slavery as far as recorded history shows.
You seem to be asking from a narrow-knowledge position, but that's fine - since asking is how we learn.
I know a lot of folks who arrived at Ellis Island with a surname unpronounceable to the idiots processing them, so they were either shortened or just given something totally unrelated like Jones or Smith.
Of course it is..."I don't know who my grandfather is, he died before I was born.".... "I don't know where my people are from, what language they spoke, what their real names were, or what their culture was." See the difference? There's varying degrees of ignorance concerning ones lineage.
Location: NYC based - Used to Live in Philly - Transplant from Miami
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Yes.
Indonesians, who come from the far East (China, Japan, etc); mostly Chinese.
I actually experienced it.
I know I am Chinese, but I don't know from what clan. I am pretty sure that it is comparable to African Americans because they yearn to know from what tribes they are coming from - not from what country.
During the 40 - 60s, they had to Indonesia-nized their names. So it started from my grandparents' generation. They were forced to change their names.
Chinese new year, etc etc were forbidden to be celebrated in Indonesia. They called them derogatory names. In fact some of the natives hated toward chinese in general that during 1998 there was an incident in which angry mob went to chinese people's house, killing people, raping mothers and daughters in front of their families while shouting "Allahu Akbar" (They are Muslims).
Like somebody said earlier, any religious bigots / extremists, as well as zealots are no good.
Of course it is..."I don't know who my grandfather is, he died before I was born.".... "I don't know where my people are from, what language they spoke, what their real names were, or what their culture was." See the difference? There's varying degrees of ignorance concerning ones lineage.
No, I meant can it be calculated. Totaled. Real raw numbers. The only variance would be how many generations one could go back before all is lost. I'd bet it's an even spread between all races and ethnicities.
I am not that sure it is a valid assumption that all black people are not aware of their family histories. One aspect of African American cultural that has remained intact from Africa is the reliance on oral history. It is also common to assume that the institution of slavery completely stripped away vital aspects of the identity of slaves but IMO slavery and the isolation of subsequent segregation strengthened black identity.
The family name that my family has used for three generations is one selected by an ancestor. The original name is known and recently a picture surfaced of my great grandfather that served to validate family oral history. It's pretty hard to take something from somebody if they value it.
Yes.
Indonesians, who come from the far East (China, Japan, etc); mostly Chinese.
I actually experienced it.
I know I am Chinese, but I don't know from what clan. I am pretty sure that it is comparable to African Americans because they yearn to know from what tribes they are coming from - not from what country.
During the 40 - 60s, they had to Indonesia-nized their names. So it started from my grandparents' generation. They were forced to change their names.
Chinese new year, etc etc were forbidden to be celebrated in Indonesia. They called them derogatory names. In fact some of the natives hated toward chinese in general that during 1998 there was an incident in which angry mob went to chinese people's house, killing people, raping mothers and daughters in front of their families while shouting "Allahu Akbar" (They are Muslims).
Like somebody said earlier, any religious bigots / extremists, as well as zealots are no good.
I'm sorry to hear that. I would settle for even knowing which country my ancestors are from. It's funny, I'm mostly African, yet I know more specifics about my lesser admixtures than I do my African Ancestry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCc girl
No, I meant can it be calculated. Totaled. Real raw numbers. The only variance would be how many generations one could go back before all is lost. I'd bet it's an even spread between all races and ethnicities.
I think we're getting off topic. Calculating knowledge of ones lineage based on raw numbers? I'm not sure you can ever accurately quantify something like an individual person's knowledge. In regards to your comment about the only variance being how many generations you're able to go back being even between all races is simply wrong and an incorrect premise to base how well people know their lineage on. The average White will be able to trace and know their lineage more accurately than the average African American. Are you arguing that White Americans, or Americans of any ethnicity for that matter know less than the average African American about their lineage? If you are, we'll simply have to agree to disagree. Judging by your username, I think we're coming from two very, very different perspectives and so there's no need for us to go back and forth, we probably won't see eye to eye.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thriftylefty
I am not that sure it is a valid assumption that all black people are not aware of their family histories. One aspect of African American cultural that has remained intact from Africa is the reliance on oral history. It is also common to assume that the institution of slavery completely stripped away vital aspects of the identity of slaves but IMO slavery and the isolation of subsequent segregation strengthened black identity.
The family name that my family has used for three generations is one selected by an ancestor. The original name is known and recently a picture surfaced of my great grandfather that served to validate family oral history. It's pretty hard to take something from somebody if they value it.
In regards to the first part of your statement, you're simply incorrect. African slaves were muzzled and had the flesh whipped off their backs or worse for not accepting their slave name. How that strengthened Black identity as you put it I don't know, and I really don't care to hear your explanation.
This leads me to responding to your second statement. When you're outnumbered, separated at birth, and treated as African slaves were for 400+ years it's kind of difficult (Impossible) to accurately hold on to your African roots especially when the Whites who outnumbered and hated you were hell-bent on insuring that didn't happen, no matter how much you value it as you put it.
Mod cut.
Last edited by PJSaturn; 07-11-2014 at 09:23 AM..
Reason: Off topic bickering.
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