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Remember, however, that the Jews were ALL marked with the 6 pointed star. That was almost certainly a death sentence. No other race or nationality was so loathed, save the gypsies. And even they didn't suffer the embarrassment and systematic extermination that those of that faith had to. Should all Jews hate all Germans? No. Should they 'forget' the Holocaust? Hell no. No more than Jim Crow laws should ever be 'forgotten'. Hate is a severely limiting mindset that unnecessarily consumes people.
Ok, you're reiterating some of what I said. You are also additionally being disingenuous by playing oppression olympics, which is touching very controversial grounds. The majority of people killed during the Holocaust were NOT Jews. Although that's neither here nor there. USA also has nothing to do with the Holocaust. Holocaust is a stain upon the soils & lands of Europe, & to a lesser extent, North Africa. If you forget one, then forget the rest & ALL of them. You can't have it both ways & then some & have your cake & eat it too!
Bottom line: If one history of oppression & struggle should be overlooked or forgotten, then ALL groups histories of oppression & struggle need to be overlooked & forgotten PERIOD.
If you forget the Holocaust, then you also have to forget Slavery & Jim Crow.
One of my black co-workers, he's around 50 years old, likes to say "the truth will set you free". And my reply to him is "as long as it is the WHOLE truth". I agree with the importance of history lessons so that past mistakes won't be repeated. However, the fact is, that humans by nature are bullies and that over the course of mankind's history, more developed and powerful civilizations have taken advantage of less developed and weaker peoples and made them into slaves. So knowing slave history is all well and good, but imo blacks need to also consider all the other instances where other cultures, nationalities and groups of people were also bullied and taken advantage of by a dominant group. It's not just black people who were picked upon.
And it was other Africans that sold blacks from opposing tribes to European traders.
And white European lords had white serfs who lived lives not much better than American black slaves.
And in South American, there is not much respect for the primitive tribes living in the rain forests.
Anyway, it is important to know the past, but not let the past cripple the present and the future.
There are many survivors of Jim Crow though still today.
Black Boomers--of which there are millions.
Heck, I myself was in the 7th grade before I ever knew a white person by name or was allowed to sit in the same social setting as a white kid. And I personally know some white men my age who are still angry at that happening.
Many of you have stated if you forget history you're doom to repeat it. Well, there's no chance anyone is going to completely forget slavery in this country, if for no other reason that its well documented. However the point is, this history is nothing but 400 years of pain and suffering with nothing to show for it. For a black person that is too much to deal with simply for the mere fact we don't have a history outside of that. In this case, I believe we need to forget about it as much as possible, to the point of not mentioning it between ourselves. Just build a new history for future black generations to look at and be proud of.
Many of you have stated if you forget history you're doom to repeat it. Well, there's no chance anyone is going to completely forget slavery in this country, if for no other reason that its well documented. However the point is, this history is nothing but 400 years of pain and suffering with nothing to show for it. For a black person that is too much to deal with simply for the mere fact we don't have a history outside of that. In this case, I believe we need to forget about it as much as possible, to the point of not mentioning it between ourselves. Just build a new history for future black generations to look at and be proud of.
You sound like one of those people who don't know black history. A proud black American history did not start this morning. You have a great deal of research to do.
I would recommend you at least get a book of James VanDerzee photography, if you're not a reader.
One of my black co-workers, he's around 50 years old, likes to say "the truth will set you free". And my reply to him is "as long as it is the WHOLE truth". I agree with the importance of history lessons so that past mistakes won't be repeated. However, the fact is, that humans by nature are bullies and that over the course of mankind's history, more developed and powerful civilizations have taken advantage of less developed and weaker peoples and made them into slaves. So knowing slave history is all well and good, but imo blacks need to also consider all the other instances where other cultures, nationalities and groups of people were also bullied and taken advantage of by a dominant group. It's not just black people who were picked upon.
And it was other Africans that sold blacks from opposing tribes to European traders.
And white European lords had white serfs who lived lives not much better than American black slaves.
And in South American, there is not much respect for the primitive tribes living in the rain forests.
Anyway, it is important to know the past, but not let the past cripple the present and the future.
The difference is our history only goes back to slavery. Also as you mention and is often mentioned, there were african people selling other africans into slavery. So at the end of the day our history only amounts to a lot of suffering, and no profit. A lot of suffering, and no one to blame. That's really nothing to talk about, and I get depressed thinking about it. In this case, it's just a history not worth mentioning. We have it recorded, and that's good enough. (Though I doubt this history would be repeated. It would take a whole scale breakdown of US society to repeat this history)
The difference is our history only goes back to slavery. Also as you mention and is often mentioned, there were african people selling other africans into slavery. So at the end of the day our history only amounts to a lot of suffering, and no profit. A lot of suffering, and no one to blame. That's really nothing to talk about, and I get depressed thinking about it. In this case, it's just a history not worth mentioning. We have it recorded, and that's good enough. (Though I doubt this history would be repeated. It would take a whole scale breakdown of US society to repeat this history)
That african selling african excuse is a ruse to take the
guilt off the European and Euro-Americans who participated.
The old racism which was open, widespread, institutionalized and legalized has been overcome to the degree that the virulent forms which still exist, exist as public pariahs, their numbers and potency dwindling with each passing generation.
I suspect that most white people now are like me, they do not want to be racists, they do not want to be thought of as racists, and consequently feel awkward, or at least not completely at ease around minorities because they fear that issue being raised by the minority person. Certainly less so around minority members that we know well or are around on a daily basis, but an illustration of what I have in mind might be a job interview.
A white employer faced with choosing between a white and black, both of whom appear to be equally qualified, right away is dealing with the issue of fearing charges of racism if he/she hires the white person. Balanced against this might be the idea that if the employee fails to work out, it will be more difficult to discharge the black employee because of the potential for leveling racism charges. The white employer genuinely wants to do the right thing, but cannot keep those thoughts from his or her head.
I'm white so I won't presume to speak for what minorities are thinking in the above dynamic, but I imagine the same sorts of suspicions are afloat.
I don't think that Dr. King envisioned such specifics when he called for a future where all are judged by the content of their character rather than the color of their skin. It was the right idea, but getting there has been thornier than we might have supposed. At least we know from watching Star Trek, that 200 years from now they have it all solved. Perhaps the sooner we cease dwelling on the past, the sooner we get to the future.
You sound like one of those people who don't know black history. A proud black American history did not start this morning. You have a great deal of research to do.
I would recommend you at least get a book of James VanDerzee photography, if you're not a reader.
Of course there are great stories in our history. Yet I'm looking at this thing as a whole. As a people, our history is one from suffering, that's the basis for every african american story. Any time you talk about a black person in american history, the back drop will always be the struggle against racism and so forth. Again, 400 years and nothing to show for that. Did the US benefit from slavery? Unofficially yes, but officially no. Did the US benefit from the Civil Rights Movement? Unofficially yes, but officially no. So I think thinking about it hypothetically, it may be better to forget it in order to truly move on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by feck
That african selling african excuse is a ruse to take the
guilt off the European and Euro-Americans who participated.
Probably. Just like when people saying the North fought for the freedom of slaves, and that black people should be happy for that. Overall however, this just reconfirms officially there was a lot of suffering and nothing to show for it. At least for me, that's not a history I would want to dwell on too much. The black community's problem today is the same as it was after the civil war. Out of all the wealth in this nation, hardly any of it is owned by black people. So today with full protection under the law, we just need to focus on building black businesses and earning wealth. Again give future black generations something to smile about.
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