Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
but the jim crow laws of the pass and the issues of slavery has nothing to do with the black community of unwed mothers, low education, high crime, high unemployment. those are all behavior sciences. The problem of today with the inner community have been brought unto themselves by their own community
Yes, they do because those situations were created during and by the Jim Crow era. Those didn't suddenly appear in the 1970s.
but the jim crow laws of the pass and the issues of slavery has nothing to do with the black community of unwed mothers, low education, high crime, high unemployment. those are all behavior sciences. The problem of today with the inner community have been brought unto themselves by their own community
I'm sure I'll never convince anyone who takes this view, but I couldn't disagree more. Slavery, Jim Crow policies, misguided urban planning etc have totally contributed their awful legacy to today's society. Hundreds of years of systems which in order to survive destroyed family structure, the ability to support a family, the ability to move where jobs were, the ability to own property or move to areas with good educational opportunities have a legacy. It can't be wiped out with a few decades of legal changes not reflected in attitude changes. In order for those systems to exist, not just one or two generations, but 10's of generations of a specific group had to be dehumanized, infantalized, or turned into "others". How long do you think it takes for that to go away? one generation? 2?
No, it's not better to forget the past. Knowing the past helps you to know yourself, helps you to overcome centuries of ingrained societal attitudes and low expectations. Helps you to find honor in the survival of those who came before you. The past does not provide excuses - it provides reasons and insights. and there is a difference.
This is how I see it. Those who fail to remember the past will certainly repeat it. There is a fear of repeating the past. Stuff like slavery and Jim Crow will never be forgotten.
Jim Crow only ended fully a couple decades ago. As late as the early 1980s - the cemetery where my grandparents are buried wouldn't let minority people be buried there, and this was in south Texas where it was about 70% Hispanic! Finally in the 80s a court forced it to stop that policy, but you can see the legacies very clearly because it's only Anglo names in the older part, all the non-Anglo names are on the perimeter. Even in death they have to endure indignity.
I don't mean this to be racist, but I wouldn't trade being a white male in the U.S. for anything. I see racism all over the place when people don't even think they're being racist. I'm glad they don't direct it at me. I feel sorry for the people that have to deal with that crap.
Last edited by redguard57; 08-08-2014 at 11:47 PM..
At the end of the day then, what worth is there from all that suffering? The only thing I get from that history is it's over, no one is to blame for that, and that we should get over it. I see no contribution to the US if immigrants didn't need our suffering, and slavery itself was a legal activity.
What worth is there in all that suffering? Only if we continue to learn from it as history, so that we are not doomed to repeat it. The suffering and the contribution have nothing to do with one another; that is your misconception. None of us NEEDED blacks to suffer. What we needed was for them to be part of the American dream. The suffering of blacks led to a war that killed more American than any other war in history by far, and decimated the economy of the South for a half-century. The suffering of blacks then led to another 100 years of sadness and hate and wasted time on top of that. Jim Crow directly caused blacks to be uprooted from opportunities to be productive and increase their wealth and status in this country, and transplanted to the ghettos of the North where they became wage slaves, landless and disinherited from their attachment to agriculture and the land. This historic mass migration was the DIRECT result of propagandizing rooted in a political agenda.
I can only dream of what might have occurred had Lincoln not been assassinated. There could have been a second land grant - where blacks were deeded millions of acres of fertile areas in the central heartland with assistance to begin their own farms and towns. They would have excelled in agriculture and trades, with their vast experience earned in the crucible of slavery. Instead they were lured to the white owned industrial areas with promises of jobs and "respect", where they were instead converted to landless laborers owning nothing but the shirts on their backs.
There is a difference between using history as a teacher and using history as a WEAPON. Noone will never benefit from history if they allow their just concerns and fears to be exploited to convert them into anger and mob groupthink. Black history is among many things being exploited to undermine America's structure and Constitution as a viable way of life, and sap it's strength rooted in liberty, respect for individual rights and property and economic self-determinism. People are now divided against one another on all fronts, to serve a common agenda. And when I look at the rhetoric and the literature of all these different activist groups, I see startling simalarities in them that all point to one source of inspiration and support. Revolutionary Globalism. People on both sides are being led to the same destination by political parties that have been subverted to by one common ideology rooted in radical socialism. Each party tells its voters what they want to hear, promises them what they most want to see.... and then does what it wants to do in order to keep getting elected while fulfilling the agenda of the ideology they serve.
For blacks, Marxism is the cruelest lie and biggest deception of all. Look at it in light of the very critical theory approach that it uses on all other systems, after all! Marxism is a white man's invention. A pseudo-science that proposes Eurocentric philosophies as a one-size fits all replacement for every culture and identity. It pays no respect to any culture or heritage but it's own modernistic conclusions. It seeks to annihalate all religions and cultures of the past and replace them with a bland uniformity dominant over the entire world. To abolish the family and parent-child relationships and essentially return all mankind to a state of serfdom or outright slavery.
This is the future destiny of black, whites and all other humans, if we allow the collectivist elites dominating the global economy to succeed in their plans for mankind. Don't let them divide us. We instead should divide ourselves from them, and make them the enemy.
Last edited by Led Zeppelin; 08-09-2014 at 09:58 AM..
So my thinking is here are two times where black people's suffering profited nothing. I used to think at least from the Civil Rights Movement, black people contributed to all minority people and women with all the civil rights programs that was issued as a result. I used to think because of black people's suffering in the early 20th century, other people coming into this country wouldn't have to suffer in the same way because of the Civil Rights Movement. Yet when I talk to people about it who's family immigrated here, they give all the credit to the hard work of their family in making it. I at least thought we had that contribution to the US, but no one is really thankful for that, it's not their history. At the end of the day then, what worth is there from all that suffering? The only thing I get from that history is it's over, no one is to blame for that, and that we should get over it. I see no contribution to the US if immigrants didn't need our suffering, and slavery itself was a legal activity.
Your post and the title are a bit divergent. You are basically saying that Black contributions to building a nation and eventually a more equal and inclusive society are unrecognized or forgotten by other groups, so wouldn't it be best if African Americans just forgot it too. That African Americans were not the sole beneficiaries of righting certain injustices, so they should forget they were among the prime movers for change.
Your argument seems to be that others forgot or don't know, so AA's should join the party. How 'bout instead of that you educate others on history instead of accepting their ignorance as the default position and adopting it as your own?
As to the "what did we get for it" point - there are countless millions of people who have suffered & are suffering and received/will receive not 1 darn thing for it personally. On an individual level that stinks big time and gave rise to religions and philosophies that still try to answer the big WHY . However, to forget the collective suffering and injustices of portions of a society is folly, if only because it raises the chances for a repeat performance. Remembering suffering can turn the hate and shame of victimization into the pride and resolve of survival.
No, it's impossible to forget that slavery happened. Hundreds of years of subjugation, no access to capitol/investment/education, dehumanization, families torn apart, murders - that leaves a deep collective mark on the psyche of a group of people.
We have to come together as a nation to move forward. I am white. I have known many black people who do not see themselves as victims, and they continually strive to move forward with their lives. I have also known many black people who can't see their full potential because they feel inferior, uneducated, or victimized. I think it's all to do with how "personal" you feel your history is.
I'm also gay, so I think I may have certain insights into the collective ideology of the black community that straight white people don't. Hundreds of years of being forced to pretend like we don't exist, then being beaten, arrested, fired from our jobs in the 1940s even up to the present day. At some point individual gay people must disengage from the past, recognize it, but move forward and not assume that straight people, because they're straight, assume the same ideology as those who have held us back for centuries.
But Jews are a very successful and highly productive group. They do remember the Holocaust, but they don't let those memories ruin their lives. Blacks seem to wallow in their past and are non-functioning because of it. Blacks keep wanting to blame slavery and the Jim Crow era for their broken family structure and lack of drive for success. However, I don't see what that has to do with black men refused to marry the women they have children with.
During the Holocaust, the Jewish families were separated in the prison camps and many were killed. Yet the survivors had children who later on married and had children together. The sense of family is very strong among the Jews. Blacks know that they need both parents to raise their children properly, yet the men don't like to settle down to marry. They are too busy being players. They don't desire to be a head of the household or be a good role model for their sons. Oddly, they seem to be more willing to marry non-black women, especially white ones.
But Jews are a very successful and highly productive group. They do remember the Holocaust, but they don't let those memories ruin their lives. Blacks seem to wallow in their past and are non-functioning because of it. Blacks keep wanting to blame slavery and the Jim Crow era for their broken family structure and lack of drive for success. However, I don't see what that has to do with black men refused to marry the women they have children with.
During the Holocaust, the Jewish families were separated in the prison camps and many were killed. Yet the survivors had children who later on married and had children together. The sense of family is very strong among the Jews. Blacks know that they need both parents to raise their children properly, yet the men don't like to settle down to marry. They are too busy being players. They don't desire to be a head of the household or be a good role model for their sons. Oddly, they seem to be more willing to marry non-black women, especially white ones.
That level of generalization is essentially a lie. If you said, "a significant portion of blacks" you'd be more correct, but that level of generalization is essentially a lie.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
