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Old 10-02-2014, 10:08 AM
 
495 posts, read 516,271 times
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When the International Red Cross visited the camp in June of 1944,

What kept the victims from revealing the truth to visitors? Was it fear of a lethal consequence? Or the false hope of survival?

What was the motivating factor that kept the children happy enough to sing songs and wear smiles? What was the knowledge inside the camp of what was occurring outside the camp? Was there any knowledge sharing among the Danish Jews and non-Danes?

After the international Red Cross left, was there any resistance at all among the SS in taking these same cute smiling children and deporting them to their deaths?

How does one go from being consciously aware of healthy happy smiling children who are presenting an image favorable to the tastes of the powers that be, to annihilating them...? I wish more interviews were done on the specific persons who carried out the deportation of these Jewish victims from the camp after the visit was over. Or was this task delegated over authorities and no single SS leader but perhaps one saw the deportation process from start to finish?

Brief summary:
Jewish children deliberately kept in healthy condition were asked to perform a play for visitors of the International Red Cross. The event made Nazis look good that they were treating their victims humanely when indeed they were not. Prior to the Red Cross visit, the camp was overcrowded and diseased and people were slowly starved. At talks of the red cross visit, the camp was beautified, creating a facade. This was done by deporting most camp victims out to death camps and leaving a lucky few to enjoy a cleaner camp. However, you can see if you visit Theriesen, even the perfect camp had facades such as 90% of all sinks and toilets were not hooked up with plumbing so they had no running water...it was a facade

After the kids performed and musicians played with false promise they would be survivors, after the show was over, they were deported to their deaths in gas chambers, or shot.

Last edited by Ericthebean; 10-02-2014 at 10:17 AM..
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Old 10-05-2014, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
114 posts, read 100,892 times
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I think that same scenario was also created in Terezine.The incredible barbaric methods used by the Nazis to trick the world into believing the Third Riech were benefactors of those poor people were incredible.
I would imagine every thought was one of survival. Can you imagine waking up every morning to a day of unyeilding terror ,humiliation and starvation?
These camps must never be forgotten for their murders and I always appreciate someone keeping the subject flowing.
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Old 10-05-2014, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
14,287 posts, read 8,744,402 times
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The fist time I ever heard of Thereisenstadt/Terezine was in the later chapters of Herman Wouk's War and Rememberence. The year was 1980, I was age 31 at the time, had been well aware of the brutalities of the Holocaust since the Eichmann trial, when I was a seventh-grader.

Mr. Wouk had the courage to name all of the Red Cross bureaucrats who were duped by the Nazis in the historical notes at the close of his work; also the notorious "Wansee protocol"; also the fact that by October of 1944, Auschwitz had so thoroughly fulfilled its evil purpose that the extermination chambers were shut down. In short, he was completely honest and stuck with historical fact -- favorable or unfavorable.

I grew up in a farming family; the majority of my ancestors were Prussians and Hessians who emigrated to escape reparaisals after the failed European revolutions of 1848, Some of them, unfortunately, subscribed to the Medieval anti-Semitism which the Enlightenment never fully succeeded in dispelling.

Living a self-reliant life not that far removed from the Frontier of the times meant that many of those people quickly became aware of the need for protection and food, sometimes addressed by the use of a firearm. I don't hunt, have never handled anything bigger than a .22 -caliber in my life, but I was fully cognizant of the link between what some people deride as the "gun culture" and the healthy mistrust of centralized authority that separates Americans from most of supposedly-"more civilized" Europe.

I raise this point precisely because in discussions of the Holocaust with some of my family and friends, I sometimes hear the argument "Why didn't the Jews fight back?"

A mass atrocity as foul as the Holocaust (and there are many others) is particularly prone to distortion, both by the deniers and those who seek to oversimplify; the latter often because they're preaching mostly to the young and impressionable, and because in some cases, their use of these obscenities is tied to other causes which are neither as simple, nor as pure.

The Holocaust must never be forgotten, but neither should it be tied to other parts of a broad-spectrum agenda. The more-typical victims were a blue-collar family from a city ghetto or subsistence farmers from a shtetl (peasant village)not that far removed from Feudalism. That is a far cry from the secular upper-middle class represented by the more convenient figure of Anne Frank. But war and history is a dirty business, particularly prone to distortion for political ends.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 10-05-2014 at 05:16 PM..
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Old 10-05-2014, 04:45 PM
 
Location: TOVCCA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericthebean View Post
How does one go from being consciously aware of healthy happy smiling children who are presenting an image favorable to the tastes of the powers that be, to annihilating them...?
Are you OK with animals used in scientific experiments? What about horses to drag plows in poor countries? Dogs to pull sleds? Do you eat meat? Ever eat "child" animals like veal or lamb? Do you wear leather? Go hunting? Poison cockroaches? Kill mosquitos? To many of us, some or all of there things are acceptable.

The Nazis thought of the Jews as sub-human, as animals to be used in service or even as vermin to be exterminated. Therefore, Jews and other prisoners were, like animals are still today, used in their version of "science," or for labor, killed for sport, and for whatever purposes the raw materials their dead bodies could furnish (their hair was used to line the boots of submarine crews): http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...Auschwitz.html

In other words, it was a matter of perspective. To the Nazis, if you weren't an Aryan, you were beneath them (even their Italian allies were low-ranked on their scale), and Jews were at the very bottom. So killing them, even their children, was to them like cleaning up the human species and the environment, sad to say it.
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Old 10-05-2014, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Suburban wasteland of NC
349 posts, read 225,922 times
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Quote:
"Why didn't the Jews fight back?"
Many of them did, just off the top of my head the Warsaw Ghetto rose up twice, the Bielski Brothers fought the Germans and saved quite a few lives, and even a few of the death camps revolted (Concentration Camp rebellions - Key Stage 3 - The Holocaust Explained). From what I've read, much of what we know about Sobibor today is from the testimony of those valiant souls who managed to put a plan together, ambush and kill some of the guards, escape from hell on earth, and managed to elude being re-captured and the certain execution that would mean.

I haven't read the full story of the Potemkin Village concentration camp, but my best guess would be that the Jews played along because, like the ones who obeyed orders to march into the mass graves and wait to be shot, they just didn't see any alternative. Many humans default to obeying when they don't see a way out. The Germans who were convicted at Nuremberg and sentenced to death by hanging didn't try to grapple with their guards on the way to the gallows after all.
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Old 10-05-2014, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Minnysoda
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Watch a documentary called Defiant Requiem Defiant Requiem (2012) - IMDb
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Old 10-05-2014, 10:43 PM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
14,287 posts, read 8,744,402 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happygeek View Post
Many of them did, just off the top of my head the Warsaw Ghetto rose up twice, the Bielski Brothers fought the Germans and saved quite a few lives, and even a few of the death camps revolted (Concentration Camp rebellions - Key Stage 3 - The Holocaust Explained). From what I've read, much of what we know about Sobibor today is from the testimony of those valiant souls who managed to put a plan together, ambush and kill some of the guards, escape from hell on earth, and managed to elude being re-captured and the certain execution that would mean.

I haven't read the full story of the Potemkin Village concentration camp, but my best guess would be that the Jews played along because, like the ones who obeyed orders to march into the mass graves and wait to be shot, they just didn't see any alternative. Many humans default to obeying when they don't see a way out. The Germans who were convicted at Nuremberg and sentenced to death by hanging didn't try to grapple with their guards on the way to the gallows after all.
My point was restricted access to weapons (and the high cost of a personal vehicle for that matter) were, and still are, easier to implement and sustain in class-conscious, stagnant Europe. That made the victims of the Holocaust easier to round up and exterminate. But this supposedly "civilized" social order is often cited as the example to be followed, by many of the high-placed, and supposedly high-minded "progressives" at this site.

I'm not buying, thanks.
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Old 10-05-2014, 11:45 PM
 
Location: TOVCCA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
My point was restricted access to weapons (and the high cost of a personal vehicle for that matter) were, and still are, easier to implement and sustain in class-conscious, stagnant Europe.
The Japanese-Americans went to Manzanar camps in the US with nary a peep, and many of them were quite wealthy, and had cars and probably guns. So why didn't they fight back?

I think it was the times, everywhere in the world, when people still believed that their governments had (mostly unquestioned) authority, and people did what the government said they had to do. Read this:

"Most of the Jews were forced to pay for their own deportations, particularly wherever passenger carriages were used. This payment came in the form of direct money deposit to the SS in light of the "resettlement to work in the East" myth. Charged in the ghettos for accommodation the adult Jews paid full price one-way tickets, while children under 10–12 years of age paid half price." And I have read elsewhere (can't find the link, sorry) that some who could afford to do so chose to go first-class on the trains.

Holocaust train - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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