North Korea puts Japan to shame in its refusal to surrender (WWII, war)
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I know people always say Japan was impossible to get to surrender in WWII and even atomic bombs barely got them to surrender but I don't think they can compare in any way to North Korea. Over 2-3 million people out of a population of 9 million were killed in North Korea in the Korean War while 2.7 million out of a population of 70 million were killed in Japan in WWII. Almost all of North Korea's cities were completely destroyed (over 80%+ destroyed while Japanese cities were around 50-60% destroyed) and the United States dropped more bombs on North Korea than were dropped in the entire Pacific Theater. Nuclear weapons were also considered to be of no use due to all the devastation already wrought on North Korean cities.
Furthermore, North Korea was also almost completely occupied before the Chinese entered the war whereas Japan was never even invaded. Despite all these insane casualties, Kim Il Sung refused to surrender or even contemplate a ceasefire and the Chinese and Russians had to force him to talk to the US. Kim Il Sung also thought he could unite the Korean peninsula even though his situation was dire while even the most delusional Japanese general knew the war was lost in 1945. I know the situations are obviously different and Japan can't really be compared to North Korea but it is still crazy that nothing got North Korea to contemplate surrender and the US was only able to get a ceasefire.
BTW I do have to say Americans are more than willing to discuss the morality of firebombings and the atomic bombings against Japan in WWII but why do so few even discuss the horrific atrocities committed against the North Koreans in the Korean War? The only person who even discussed it is Brian Cummings. It is important to discuss IMO since it would let people know why the country is what it is.
I don't know where you are getting your numbers from, but common consensus is that NK civilian casulaties were around the 1 million mark, plus the 300 and some thousand military casualties.
Stalin had no intention of letting NK fall and the NK gov't knew that. When it got bad enough, Stalin gave the Chinese the green light.
Why aren't NK's atrocities and war crimes discussed? It is called "The Forgotton War" for a reason.
Your representation is entirely incorrect. Kim Il Sung was a puppet of the Soviet's and Chinese, the Kim cult of personality dynasty had yet to be established. The leadership of North Korea was not calling the shots on if and when the war would end or a truce would be established. The last two years of the Korean War was a stalemate between Chinese forces and the Allied forces, North Korean forces did little fighting by this time. Korea was simply a wasteland territory for Chinese to fight in during the cold war. Kim wasn't even in Korea during the war, he was hiding in China after the first year, running from his country like a scared little b*tch.
Both N. Korea and S. Korea were almost completely occupied in the see-saw action of the first year of the war.
Your representation is entirely incorrect. Kim Il Sung was a puppet of the Soviet's and Chinese, the Kim cult of personality dynasty had yet to be established. The leadership of North Korea was not calling the shots on if and when the war would end or a truce would be established. The last two years of the Korean War was a stalemate between Chinese forces and the Allied forces, North Korean forces did little fighting by this time. Korea was simply a wasteland territory for Chinese to fight in during the cold war. Kim wasn't even in Korea during the war, he was hiding in China after the first year, running from his country like a scared little b*tch.
Both N. Korea and S. Korea were almost completely occupied in the see-saw action of the first year of the war.
I was going to suggest the same thing. My understanding was the China and (to some degree) Russia did not want Korea to fall. It was some sort of communist symbol in their fight against capitalist America. China was propping up North Korea with a lot of men and money. That is not to say the Kim Il Sung was not adamant that Korea would never surrender, but I am not sure he would have been allowed to do so, even if he wanted to.
I was going to suggest the same thing. My understanding was the China and (to some degree) Russia did not want Korea to fall. It was some sort of communist symbol in their fight against capitalist America. China was propping up North Korea with a lot of men and money. That is not to say the Kim Il Sung was not adamant that Korea would never surrender, but I am not sure he would have been allowed to do so, even if he wanted to.
Yeah. The only thing that can be said is that Kim initiated the Korean War, at the initial objections of China (although Stalin gave him the OK). After Inchon, North Korean forces were routed and essentially ceased to exist, and Kim ran away. The Chinese army took over the military and political aspects of the war, with their "volunteers" pouring over the Yalu, and at that point and until the conclusion Kim was only a minor player in the military and political decision making process. Kim actually wanted a armistice, obviously because then he would be able to return to power. But his handlers (Chairman Mao and, to a lessor degree, Stalin until his death) were in charge of that process.
I don't know where you are getting your numbers from, but common consensus is that NK civilian casulaties were around the 1 million mark, plus the 300 and some thousand military casualties.
Stalin had no intention of letting NK fall and the NK gov't knew that. When it got bad enough, Stalin gave the Chinese the green light.
Why aren't NK's atrocities and war crimes discussed? It is called "The Forgotton War" for a reason.
Do you mean the US as well? I don't recall this being a total war but it sure was fought like one. The firebombing of NK was far worse than anything Japan went through and yet not a peep from anyone. North Korea was not a threat in any way to the US yet it was bombed continuously. Near the end of the war, the US bombed a dam which caused a massive flood. As bad as Japan's administration of Korea was, they never razed North Korean cities or murdered millions of Koreans.
Do you mean the US as well? I don't recall this being a total war but it sure was fought like one. The firebombing of NK was far worse than anything Japan went through and yet not a peep from anyone. North Korea was not a threat in any way to the US yet it was bombed continuously. Near the end of the war, the US bombed a dam which caused a massive flood. As bad as Japan's administration of Korea was, they never razed North Korean cities or murdered millions of Koreans.
But who cares what the US did to North Korea? Like Japan, they started the war and deserved to be destroyed.
You complaints are typical of someone who never realized that they can't hit the big kid on the block then run home to mommy crying after he beat the cr$p out of you.
But who cares what the US did to North Korea? Like Japan, they started the war and deserved to be destroyed.
You complaints are typical of someone who never realized that they can't hit the big kid on the block then run home to mommy crying after he beat the cr$p out of you.
Like Japan, North Korea was also exceptionally brutal to the prisoners it captured and to short time they occupied parts of South Korea, in a rate that vastly exceeds the normal brutality of warfare. Attrocities were commited on both sides of course. But North Korea murdered about half a million south Korean citizens during their advance and retreat from the south, and if you were an American POW your chances of survival was about 50/50. North Korean soldiers would simply execute captured US soldiers and airmen, the Chinese were only slightly better.
Ah, if life and history were so dichotomously simple.
Historians now acknowledge that the two Koreas already were waging a civil conflict when North Korea's attack opened the conventional phase of the war.17 Contradicting traditional assumptions, however, available declassified Soviet documents demonstrate that throughout 1949 Stalin consistently refused to approve Kim IL Sung's persistent requests to approve an invasion of South Korea. The Soviet leader believed that North Korea had not achieved either military superiority north of the parallel or political strength south of that line. His main concern was the threat South Korea posed to North Korea's survival, for example fearing an invasion northward following U.S. military withdrawal in June 1949.18
Stalin was not prepared to risk war with the United States in 1949, but the Communist victory in China that fall placed pressure on him to show his support for the same outcome in Korea. Both of these factors allowed Kim IL Sung to use the "strategy he later used so extensively of playing China and the Soviet Union against one another."
Ah, if life and history were so dichotomously simple.
Historians now acknowledge that the two Koreas already were waging a civil conflict when North Korea's attack opened the conventional phase of the war.17 Contradicting traditional assumptions, however, available declassified Soviet documents demonstrate that throughout 1949 Stalin consistently refused to approve Kim IL Sung's persistent requests to approve an invasion of South Korea. The Soviet leader believed that North Korea had not achieved either military superiority north of the parallel or political strength south of that line. His main concern was the threat South Korea posed to North Korea's survival, for example fearing an invasion northward following U.S. military withdrawal in June 1949.18
Stalin was not prepared to risk war with the United States in 1949, but the Communist victory in China that fall placed pressure on him to show his support for the same outcome in Korea. Both of these factors allowed Kim IL Sung to use the "strategy he later used so extensively of playing China and the Soviet Union against one another."
On that topic, this is interesting because I was lead to believe that Stalin was reluctant, but gave Kim the OK because 1.) The Soviet Union got the A bomb (thanks to Julius and Ethel Rosenburg for that), and 2.) He saw the US lack of involvement of full communist take over of mainland China as a sign of weakness and proof that the US would in fact not get involved in Korea. Mao was the reluctant one. Your article gives much more interesting background on the political games being played behind the iron/bamboo curtain. It's an almost amusing mom and dad relationship that Korea had with the communist powers - Dad (Stalin) would only say yes if Mom (Mao) approved.
As it was, he may have gotten his wish about the US. As I remember it, the Soviet Union walked out of a UN session and made the tactical mistake of letting the UN to approve combined military action against north korea. Going by some old history lesson memories here however.
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