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Old 02-05-2008, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 43,229,873 times
Reputation: 10991

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We have other avenues for oil. However, Japan was not looking to buy OUR oil. The oil reserves were in the Pacific, and we held some of the Japanese assets, as well. We froze their bank accounts.
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Old 02-05-2008, 05:11 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 24,111,859 times
Reputation: 7583
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
We have other avenues for oil. However, Japan was not looking to buy OUR oil.
Sure they were. We were oil PRODUCERS at the time. We sold oil, steel and and all kinds of stuff to Japan. They also bought oil from the Dutch East Indies and when the Japanese invaded French Indo-China the Dutch placed an embargo on Japan as well. That was not OUR doing. The Dutch government in exile in Britain chose to do that - as was their right. No one should have a gun held to their head and told "you better trade with us" - or do you think that is OK too?

Ken
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Old 02-05-2008, 06:29 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 43,229,873 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
Sure they were. We were oil PRODUCERS at the time. We sold oil, steel and and all kinds of stuff to Japan. They also bought oil from the Dutch East Indies and when the Japanese invaded French Indo-China the Dutch placed an embargo on Japan as well. That was not OUR doing. The Dutch government in exile in Britain chose to do that - as was their right. No one should have a gun held to their head and told "you better trade with us" - or do you think that is OK too?

Ken
I don't think it's okay, but I think the American government would disagree with you.
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Old 02-05-2008, 07:04 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 24,111,859 times
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Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
I don't think it's okay, but I think the American government would disagree with you.
Under the right circumstances, I suspect you are correct (and it wouldn't be right).

Ken
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Old 02-06-2008, 08:05 AM
 
12,787 posts, read 18,654,305 times
Reputation: 6777
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
Remember, OTHER countries aren't our problem. America's isolationism was appropriate. We should not have sent aid, nor denied them access to what they needed, except to protect our own country.

If we had moved the fleet, as has been suggested, the American people would not have been incited to respond. THAT was the intention. The Japanese codes had been broken, the radar operators were told to ignore the information on their screens.

You are basing your statements on falsehoods and basically making it up as you go along. The bottom line is you are defending Japan's, and by extension, Nazi Germany's actions. You are defending fascism.
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Old 02-06-2008, 12:59 PM
 
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And The has it right. The US submarine fleet had effectively blockaded Japan completely to the point that even coastal convoys were being decimated. LeMays Superforts were bombing at will and given time (3-6 months) would have literally bombed Japan back to the stone age. The carrier based aircraft were shooting up even single automobiles and running out of targets. An invasion would not have been necessary, they could literally have starved the Japanese into extinction never mind submission.
Yes the atomic bombs were deadly, but they cost a LOT fewer lives than would have been the case had the war been prolonged or had the Allies invaded. Dont for a second believe that the civilian population would not have fought with as much tenacity as did the defenders at Iwo and lets be blunt.... if it was a possible civilian vs me or my buddy, well the civilian was going to be history be it male female or child
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Old 02-06-2008, 01:13 PM
 
4 posts, read 7,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
Remember, OTHER countries aren't our problem. America's isolationism was appropriate. We should not have sent aid, nor denied them access to what they needed, except to protect our own country.

If we had moved the fleet, as has been suggested, the American people would not have been incited to respond. THAT was the intention. The Japanese codes had been broken, the radar operators were told to ignore the information on their screens.
The Japanese codes were not in fact broken until much later in the war. Partial readings were made but those decipherings took days if not weeks. The Japanese army and navy used separate codes and the naval code was much tougher to crack, so although the US codebreakers knew Japan was planning an operation of some sort, given their attention to the Far East it was reasonable to assume that Japan was going to either atack Russia (which it was in fact supposed to do in conjunction with Germanys attack from the other side) or simply move against Australia. Who would concieve that the "second rate, short sighted, buck toothed" Japanese would DARE attack fortress America? Same mentality as 9/11. The quality of Japanese equipment came as a HUGE shock to the allies... especially the aircraft and aircrew ability. The loss of the Repulse and Prince of Wales shows that even after Pearl Harbour, the allies still underestimated the abilities of the Imperial Japanese Navy
Give Japan credit, it launched simultaneous attacks over a huge distance and conducted teh operations with great daring and finesse. If not for the timidity of the senior command they would have achieved 100% of their objectives and crippled the US for much longer than they did.
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Old 02-07-2008, 05:54 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 43,229,873 times
Reputation: 10991
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
You are basing your statements on falsehoods and basically making it up as you go along. The bottom line is you are defending Japan's, and by extension, Nazi Germany's actions. You are defending fascism.
Actually, I'm defending the concept of "minding one's own business". A concept America has had a problem with over the past couple hundred years.
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Old 02-07-2008, 05:56 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 43,229,873 times
Reputation: 10991
Vik,

NO ONE has adequately explained why America would have been compelled to invade a country whose army had retreated there. It's like kicking a guy who's rolled up in a ball on the floor. Unnecessary.
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Old 02-07-2008, 08:09 AM
 
12,787 posts, read 18,654,305 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
Actually, I'm defending the concept of "minding one's own business". A concept America has had a problem with over the past couple hundred years.
Yes I am quite sure that Japan was "minding its own business" when it proceeded to pummel China, occupy her territory and rape and slaughter hundreds of thousands of innocents.

How dare that horrid America choose not to provide oil and other materials to facilitate that noble Japanese endeavor! Imagine that! Actually taking the moral high road when we could "mind our own business!"

Yes, yes. America was soooo horrible and Japan was just misunderstood. Thank you for clarifying that.
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