Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 11-16-2014, 03:09 PM
 
3,495 posts, read 6,441,597 times
Reputation: 1429

Advertisements

In the past century the Arab/Iranian world has turned more violent and intolerant. Some factors are the redrawing of the area after WW1; the birth of you-know-what in 1948; the Iranian Revolution of 1979.

Back in 1098 it seemed like European Christians were more intolerant. On their way to fight the Muslims in Palestine, they even slaughtered a Jewish village.

I've read that Saudi Arabia has zero Christian or Jewish places of worship.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-16-2014, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville, FL
11,054 posts, read 10,612,868 times
Reputation: 9687
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertpasa View Post
In the past century the Arab/Iranian world has turned more violent and intolerant. Some factors are the redrawing of the area after WW1; the birth of you-know-what in 1948; the Iranian Revolution of 1979.

Back in 1098 it seemed like European Christians were more intolerant. On their way to fight the Muslims in Palestine, they even slaughtered a Jewish village.

I've read that Saudi Arabia has zero Christian or Jewish places of worship.
The western world - in other words, Christians - has been using the Middle East as a pawn for a few centuries now. Eventually, even the most tolerant of people are going to get tired of being the middle man between warring nations and tell them to get out.

That isn't all of the reason, but that's a part of it. Another part would be a shift toward fundamentalism in the Middle East after a previous shift toward secularism that occurred in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

There are other factors, but those two can possibly add to the conversation.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-16-2014, 11:16 PM
 
3,804 posts, read 6,143,413 times
Reputation: 3338
A long story...

Arabia was a poor and largely irrelevant part of the world for most of history. It gained some prominence with Islam, but you'll notice very shortly after Muhammad's death the major Muslim powers would not keep their seat of power in Arabia. The discovery of oil changed all that. Oil money gave the absolute monarchs who ruled Arabia much more money than their date farms and pearl concessions ever had. They used this to, among other things, control the media in their countries and reinforce the strength of their rule.

Most jobs necessary for the functioning of society are regarded as "servant's work" in Arabian culture. Basically, the respectable jobs are limited to being a merchant, warrior, or Islamic scholar. As a result the oil money gave a large group of people already disinclined to work most jobs the resources not to. In most of human history large groups of middle class or higher people in a country leads to some sort of democratic changes.

To avoid this threat to their power, the monarchical controlled media spent a long time demonizing much of the non-Islamic world particularly Isreal and the U.S. as a distraction from the fact that they ruled their countries with iron fists, and this isn't helped by there being some things in the Koran to reinforce this idea depending on your interpretation. So in short the Kings and emirs of Arabia channeled the social unrest in their countries against parts of the outside world to protect themselves while Arabian culture made jihadi one of the few modern respectable professions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-18-2014, 01:28 PM
 
4,454 posts, read 4,588,383 times
Reputation: 3146
I'd sure be curious what historical Arab leaders if alive would think about the current state of the Arab world in its relationship to the West and to its own states. Some I know point to the West as a troublemaker but arguably the Arabs themselves can't be without blame say in the kind of governments they have, the question of who represents Islam, what is it and why is it racked with so much violence and dissension.

From the looks of it, I don't think it can be said that the Arab states have eased into the modern world well. There's certainly a shortage of tolerance in ideas and in religion. The time and the place seem to have awakened many who wish to exploit that to the detriment of existing societies. It's down to an us vs them mentality with apparently no quarter given.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-18-2014, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Independent Republic of Ballard
8,061 posts, read 8,288,558 times
Reputation: 6218
It is not just Islam that is becoming more fundamentalist and intolerant. The same can also be said of Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-18-2014, 06:15 PM
 
18,775 posts, read 27,211,361 times
Reputation: 20123
Well, if you really want a LONG story... Goes back to exiled son of Abraham, Arabs started from. It's an old feud.
Also, if you pay attention to geography, besides clear oil relevance, you know what started in 1948 is cleaning the buffer area around itself. Creating a buffer zone. With proxy hands, btw. Has big mace in form of nuclear weapons, does not want to sign nuclear treaties, does not allow any inspections on its territory, yet, will blame all and everyone around of all kinds of relevant atrocities. And threaten to use that mace too. Remember old Roman saying - Quad licet Jovi, non licet bovi. What's permitted to you know who founded in 1948, is a punishable offense to anyone else close by.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-20-2014, 09:33 AM
 
4,454 posts, read 4,588,383 times
Reputation: 3146
^
You know perhaps that's why it will be very interesting to see where the so-called solution 'fulcrum' exists in trying to solve these gigantic problems we are seeing particularly in the Middle East. Does it reside more with what say the 'West' does vs what the Arab states themselves do? So far I'd say there's a pretty big disfunction going on in both since chaos and killing still keeps going on. Looks intractable right now.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-21-2014, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,139 posts, read 22,712,322 times
Reputation: 14115
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertpasa View Post
In the past century the Arab/Iranian world has turned more violent and intolerant. Some factors are the redrawing of the area after WW1; the birth of you-know-what in 1948; the Iranian Revolution of 1979.

Back in 1098 it seemed like European Christians were more intolerant. On their way to fight the Muslims in Palestine, they even slaughtered a Jewish village.

I've read that Saudi Arabia has zero Christian or Jewish places of worship.
Because the "powers that be" have purposely engaged in a long-term strategy of destabilization and fragmentation of the region, and that kind of environment breeds new competing crazy fundamentalist movements like a rat breeds bubonic plague and actually helps to keep the region constantly weak and well, unstable.

Imagine an unimpeded Middle East united by Islam with over 1 billion followers who openly believe in theocratic government and have the goal of putting the entire world under Sharia Law, then throw in the fact they also have world's greatest oil supply over there... the #1 most important natural resource of the modern world.

That would have made one hell of an aggressive superpower, and almost certainly led to an apocalyptic world war that (thus far) has been evaded.

So yes, the current state of the region is our doing. But we also get to live fairly peacefully and according to our own beliefs because of it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-21-2014, 11:59 PM
 
Location: Northern Wisconsin
10,379 posts, read 10,839,994 times
Reputation: 18712
I think this all has been a reaction against western influence coming to their countries. They didn't like the changes happening with their people in their country, so they fought back.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-22-2014, 09:03 AM
 
14,308 posts, read 14,103,544 times
Reputation: 45436
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertpasa View Post
In the past century the Arab/Iranian world has turned more violent and intolerant. Some factors are the redrawing of the area after WW1; the birth of you-know-what in 1948; the Iranian Revolution of 1979.

Back in 1098 it seemed like European Christians were more intolerant. On their way to fight the Muslims in Palestine, they even slaughtered a Jewish village.

I've read that Saudi Arabia has zero Christian or Jewish places of worship.
Its a misguided way of dealing with the fact that these societies/countries are largely dysfunctional. If you take oil out of the equation the entire GDP of the Arab countries put together is less than that of the country of Finland.

On the other hand, during the 1300's, Muslim civilization in the Middle East thrived. There were many gifted scholars that go back to this period. There were famous Muslim scientists, physicians, poets, and authors. At their height, the Muslim Empire swept across Africa, Asia, and into Spain. It took the Spaniards literally centuries to drive the Moors out of Spain.

Today, these countries are full of young men who have no real prospects for education or employment. An increasing population puts more and more pressures on governments to do something. So far, I think you'd be hard pressed to find one government in the Muslim world that is doing much about these problems. An interesting book on this subject is What Went Wrong? by Bernard Lewis. Lewis's book could be easier to read, but he does make this point and makes it well.

In the early twentieth century, there was some attempt in the Muslim world to experiment with secularism and western style democracy. These people had little experience with democracy and most of the countries gradually became military dictatorships.

I think they view the establishment and continuity of Israel with particular enmity. Its proof to them that they lack the military means to rid themselves of what they consider an invader from Europe. They look back to the Crusades from about 1000 A.D. to 1200 A.D. and view the Israelis in much the same way they viewed the Europeans who occupied the Holy Land and Jerusalem for about 100 years. The difference is that the Muslims drove out the Europeans at the end of this time and, Israel, currently looks stronger than ever.

So, having tried other things, they want to try Islamic fundamentalism. Many who believe in this, use the line that when Muslims practiced "fundamentalism" back in the Middle Ages they reached the peak of their civilization. They argue, the way to regain their old power and influence in the world is to return to these values.

I think Muslims will ultimately decide on their own that the "fundamentalist path" is a black hole and leads nowhere. However, this may take some time. In the meanwhile, its going to be a problem for the West.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top