Puritanism impact on the United States and how much left of it, if any

[sheena12]

Originally Posted by Felix C

What the OP is asking is well covered in Albion's Seed by David Hackett Fisher.

I'd recommend this book. ^^^ It covers what Hackett calls the 'folkways" of Britain that formed the underpinnings of our culture.

The geographical parameters of American Puritanism have now shifted.
One is more likely to find people who follow a religion that eschews drinking, dancing and premarital sex in the American South than in New England, today.

The Churches that grew out of the Puritan movement are the United Church of Christ and the Unitarian Unilateralist Fellowship. Two of the most progressive American Christian denominations that remain prevalent in the New England region. The Baptist Church split into Northern and Southern factions over the issue of slavery, with one becoming the ultra fundamentalist Southern Baptist church, and the other, the moderate and mainstream American Baptist Church.

I'd say however, that by European standards, most Americans remain somewhat puritanical when it comes to sex and nudity. Even public breastfeeding is not universally accepted.

Pleasure with out work, and getting anything without first working for it, are disturbing concepts for many Americans, as opposed to continental Europeans and Scandinavians.

Again, I refer you back to "Albion's Seed", that was mentioned by FelixC.

[sheena12]

Originally Posted by maf763

The Puritans didn't bother to wait to become a country before discriminating against people of other faiths. They were hanging Quakers in the 17th century. They were looking for religious freedom for themselves, and were not particularly interested in extending it to others.

And this has been a common theme in US history and culture. People get what they want, and don't want anyone else to have it.

One can see it today in American's xenophobia over immigrants. At the middle of the 19th C through the early part of the 20th C, "Nativists" opposed the influx of immigration from Europe.

Now the great grandchildren of those opposed by the "Nativists" and "No Nothings" are teaming up with others to support sanctions on immigration, English only laws and Christianity as a state religion.

Americans beginning with the Puritans LEFT England over this. We are supposed to enjoy freedom of and from ANY institutionalized religion - and now there are those pushing for a "state religion" - i.e. Christianity.

The American landscape is indeed a confusing one. However, it is fascinating to study.

[mwruckman]

Originally Posted by Yenisey

One of the most flawed and biased things most people in Europe is taught about the U.S. is this:

1. Puritans impact on U.S. was tromendous. (This is preceeded by no expanation who Puritans were, what they believed, no reformed theology and reformation background, no English Civil War, they just happened to fall from the open sky and begin to settle in what became British America).

2. Americans still today shares many treats and believs with Puritans.

The first is partially true. The second one. Well, I'll leave that to you, you are Americans and know how much you share with some English Christian sectarians and political and religoius refugees and their view of Massechusetts as theocracy and more of Winthrop, and etc. Especially New Englanders. I might even start another thread, because it is interesting, but is false as much as it can.

Well to the first statement. The Tocqueville, brilliant as he was, leave mostly biased, flawed and false image on the U.S., excluding some very true observations in his Democracy in America, noticing American exepctionalism was one of it. One of the lies he established to sadly mislead the whole Europe, is America was Puritan in many ways. There is some notable impact of Puritans, mainly legal and societal, English as language, common law as legal system and civil structure, egalitarianism, law obedience and individualism, as also civil service and local governance. Very true was this when he claimed it. But even in the midst of einghteenth century in British America was Puritanism itself hardly seen. Wasn't it? No more reformed theology as dominant view, which remained in some congregationalist groups and presbyterian churches, and the most citizens adopted Unitarianism, as even presidents from New England were nearly all unitarians, J. Adams, his son, J. Q. Adams, and Millard Fillmore (he was upstate New York, Buffalo if i remember correctly, but he was mainly a Whig Yankee-like) and far more puritan was presbyterian A. Jackson, from this episcopal South. Also New England champion Daniel Webster, was unitarian, belief for confessing which, in Puritan Massachusetts, probably you were going to be expelled or convicted, as a dangerous heretic, who mocks God. Maybe you kow something about such a law.

How you see it, how today you are taught of it. You see as modern Americans, many features of Puritans in yourselves? In American society? Common character of all-American culture and Puritan culture?

Of course, you may say Puritans emphasized hard work and many Americans today do the same, and hard-working is common tenet of Amercanism. Yes, but how many of you, Americans, works hard to remain coherent, integral and fulfill you role as a Man of God? And how many just hard work to propser? And how many just hard work to fulfill their duties, not diretcly relates tchem to God? How many to greed, not to share? Today why work hard is a mosaic of reasons, each one group or indivual has its or his own, unlike Puritans, which were united by one goal. Weber has his thoery of Protestant work ethic. But it has been ever working, and is still working, when most people separate their career and work from personal piety, and their hard work derives from desires contrary to what Protestantism says about work and its fruits?

Poeple do not see that pointless is comparing one, tiny, very elitarist, integral and coherent in overal and highly isolated group of more or less rigorous sdherents, inflammed by their spirit, the group of no more than historically speaking ten to fifty thousand people to whole, higly diversified, highly dynamical, strong in its assets from all of the world croners, ethnic groups, personal, political and religious beliefs of several milion firstly, then hundrends of millions people. But let's try to find out, if this has ever been or is true.

Nobody tries to say that French are Jacobites, Girondist or Huegenot. Nobody says British character is either Chavalier or Puritan, and England is home to Puritanism. No one claiming Varangian character of Russians. And everywhere you are told that the U.S., nation which sets out international standards in everything Puritans would have rejected, from popular music to porn, and consumptionism and atheism.

So do you consider yourselves as heirs of Puritan's legacy and share many with them?

And one thing, not compare to modern New Enland the old one. I really think this desseves another
thread.

If you strip out Puritanism's few redeeming qualities your get Modern America's Holy Roller Evangelical Fundamentalists and all of their ignorance!

[mwruckman]

Originally Posted by maf763

The Puritans didn't bother to wait to become a country before discriminating against people of other faiths. They were hanging Quakers in the 17th century. They were looking for religious freedom for themselves, and were not particularly interested in extending it to others.

One of my ancestors John Ruckman (an Anabaptist (they evolved into the Baptists)) came to the Puritan Mass. Bay Colony in 1635 and realized his mistake and subsequently fled to Nieu Amsterdam where he joined the Gravesend community located in Brooklyn.

[wutitiz]

In Washington state we still had a post-prohibition system of state-owned/run liquor store until several years ago. The CEO of Costco didn't like it and spent $22 million on a campaign to get rid of it, and succeeded so that now you can buy a bottle of whiskey in a grocery or drug store.

We also have constant campaigns against anything to do with the sex-trade--strip clubs, escorts, massage joints, etc.

I can't say for sure that this traces all the way back to Puritanism. It might just trace back to some of the crusades of the Progressive Era (prohibition, anti-prostitution, anti-drug, etc).

[maf763]

In many ways the Progressive Era can trace back to Puritanism as well. The revivals of the 1830's were influenced by folks with strong roots in New England, and included a temperance movement.

[Old Gringo]

The impact: negative

What's left: the rabid religious right

[majoun]

Originally Posted by maf763

In many ways the Progressive Era can trace back to Puritanism as well. The revivals of the 1830's were influenced by folks with strong roots in New England, and included a temperance movement.

Progressivism was essentially godless Puritanism.

[Felix C]

^^Yes. I can see that when deconstructing Puritanism to core concepts. Good call.