Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Location: West Los Angeles and Rancho Palos Verdes
13,583 posts, read 15,667,720 times
Reputation: 14049
Advertisements
Was there ever a case of a U-Boat spotting a plane at long range, and instead of crash diving, instead stay surfaced and fight? I imagine that a venerable opponent such as a Catalina would be something to avoid if it's sighted far away and there's time to escape, but early in the war, with perhaps a Type II captain spotting one of the more fragile British planes patrolling for subs, did a captain ever decide to stay surfaced and let an enemy plane approach, even when there would have been enough time to escape under the sea?
At the time of the U-boat threat, RAF Coastal Command used Catalinas, Hudsons, Beauforts, Blenheims and the aircraft the U-boat captains feared the most. The Shorts Sunderland. None of them would be considered 'fragile'.
yes. The flak trap U-boats. Later the experiment was tried of several U-boats departing French ports together and maintaining group formation through the Bay of Biscay believing the combined flak support would deter or shoot down a/c. Worked once but then the Allies had a workaround on the next attempt.
Uboats did not cruise with their flak fully manned(the 2 twin 20mm and single 37mm) as it increased dive time due to personnel and equipment above deck. Flak was to be used if the submarine could not dive due to any reason.-refueling from another submarine, battle damage, low batteries, etc.
Actually late in the war many ASW aircraft WANTED the U-boat to dive. Once the Mk-24 air dropped 'mine' (Actually a homing torpedo called Fido) was put into operation the rules of engagement only allowed it to be used once the u-boat was below the surface in order to maintaion operational security. So in at least a few cases Patrol planes 'hung around' waiting for the u-boat to dive so they could drop the weapon.
I noticed you mentioned early war and Type II. Early War Coastal Command had very few aircraft and even fewer were armed for anti-submarine attack. Avro Anson I recall was the main aircraft which was more of a trainer than attack/reconnaissance a/c. Type II U-boats were not used outside of the North/Baltic Sea(ok some sent to the Black sea) and had a maybe a single 20mm and others had nothing. Their protection was their small size and quick diving time.
Pointless from a risk vs reward pov. Even if the u boat had good odds of coming out on top (which it didn't) its got alot more guys in it and worth alot more $$$ then a plane. Not sure how many planes would be a fair trade for a u boat but given the tonnage of shipping each could potentially sink it'd be alot.
There's simply nothing to gain and everything to lose for the u boat.
I had read of a severely mauled Uboat which shot down something like 3-4 US aeroplanes in 1943.
A rare event nonetheless, U-boat suffered a rampage through the gulf of Biscay and from May 1943 their war became just a senseless slaughter (there were more U-boat lost than sunk ships).
Pointless from a risk vs reward pov. Even if the u boat had good odds of coming out on top (which it didn't) its got alot more guys in it and worth alot more $$$ then a plane. Not sure how many planes would be a fair trade for a u boat but given the tonnage of shipping each could potentially sink it'd be alot.
There's simply nothing to gain and everything to lose for the u boat.
Yep. No armor and putting a single decent sized hole in a submarine will doom it. The "Flak Trap" subs were not one of the Nazi's best ideas.
Location: West Los Angeles and Rancho Palos Verdes
13,583 posts, read 15,667,720 times
Reputation: 14049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango
Yep. No armor and putting a single decent sized hole in a submarine will doom it. The "Flak Trap" subs were not one of the Nazi's best ideas.
Yes, but it's a lot easier to make a deflection shot with tracers from a sub traveling at 18+ knots than it is to drop a bomb close to a sub traveling at a direct orthogonal to a plane's approach path.
Yes, but it's a lot easier to make a deflection shot with tracers from a sub traveling at 18+ knots than it is to drop a bomb close to a sub traveling at a direct orthogonal to a plane's approach path.
Like other German and Japanese desperation ideas, flak boats worked relatively well- untill they met with overwhelming allied recesources.
After receiving the nasty surprise of attacking bombers hit by heavy flak and shot down and other attacking planes barely limping away with dead crewmen, the allies adapted and instructed planes not to make attack runs as individuals. Rather, the spotting plane was to shadow the U boat convoy and constantly radio in its speed and heading. An aerial wolfpack would then gather and loiter out of gunnery range. Once sufficient numbers arrived, the planes then attacked as a group from different directions.
One German account I read said that his flak boat crew had the unerving experience of watching different types of allied bombers arrive and stack against his U boat convoy for hours. Once they reached about 14 in number, they made a series of attacks from all directions. After watching U boat after U boat get blown apart, the surviving captains decided to violate orders and dive rather than get destroyed on the surface.
Last edited by Cryptic; 11-20-2015 at 09:35 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
