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I'm curious as to why catholic Ireland (3 out of 4 provinces) who had been ruled by British monarchs starting with Henry VIII (1542) didn't use the American Revolution as an opportunity themselves to proclaim their independence from their British overlords? With most of Great Britain's military forces over in North America and/or patrolling the seas (French and Spanish attacks etc.) again one would've thought that the Irish would have started a second revolutionary war front for the British to contend with? Also once France had ''officially'' entered the war on the American side wouldn't that have bolstered majority catholic Ireland even more so?
Because England had troops in Ireland, and was actively depopulating Ireland. When you strip the food from the people, incarcerate people and ship them to the Colonies as indentured servants (slaves), constantly eliminate their ability to revolt, there is no revolution.
What was so remarkable about the American revolution was that disparate leaders from 13 quite different colonies, each with its own colonial administration, was able to unify into a force against the British. The distances were vast, especially in those days when communication was extremely slow and transportation options very limited to bad roads and slow moving boats.
But what America had to its advantage was a fairly well educated population whose leaders were among the most educated people in the world. They had access to not only knowledge but resources. They owned lands, guns, wealth. They were able to put together and equip a large army.
In Ireland, however, the Irish population was more akin to slaves in the New World. There was practically no native Catholic Irish middle or upper class to provide an educated leadership for any revolt. They were extremely poor and uneducated and had no real access to weapons or other resources. The Protestant landed classes and merchants who owned all of Ireland were descendants of the British invaders, particularly the Cromwellian invaders. They wholly sided with the British. They thoroughly and utterly controlled Ireland.
By the way, there was an attempted revolt in the late 1700s, but it was put down easily. There were British fears that Napoleon would attempt to incite revolts in Ireland as a distraction (which he did unsuccessfully) so the British kept troops in Ireland to quickly quash any rebellions.
O.k. so in other words it wasn't yet the ''right'' time logistically nor was there a charismatic Irish leader(s) who could had formulated a potential revolution during the 1770's/1780's while Britain was bogged down in North America then.
The Protestant landed classes and merchants who owned all of Ireland were descendants of the British invaders, particularly the Cromwellian invaders. They wholly sided with the British. They thoroughly and utterly controlled Ireland.
This domination began well before Cromwell's invasion in the 1600's, though he did indeed complete it.
Throughout Ireland there are numerous castles. Only some of them were built by "the locals", and even those were seized, expanded and strengthened by the Normans (whom the Irish called Saxain, which essentially translates as "Saxon" or "English") beginning around 1170-1200. Whom did the Normans build, strengthen and improve these castles to defend against? Why, the Irish of course!
O.k. so in other words it wasn't yet the ''right'' time logistically nor was there a charismatic Irish leader(s) who could had formulated a potential revolution during the 1770's/1780's while Britain was bogged down in North America then.
I appreciate both your responses.
The American Revolution inspired Irish nationalism, rather than the other way around. It showed that revolt against the Crown was possible.
The difference between the pre and post Cromwellian period is that prior to the Cromwellian wars much of Ireland was still locally ruled by powerful Catholic Irish lords and gentry. British rule was more in name than in reality for these regions of Ireland. The handful of Norman lords had, by that point, so intermarried with the Irish that they were said to have become more Irish than the Irish themselves.
Ireland up through the 17th century was still a wild place, extremely poor and extremely primitive. Only the counties immediately surrounding Dublin (the pale) can be said to have been "settled." That's where the term, "beyond the pale," comes from for the area outside the pale was seen as wild, dangerous and uncontrollable.
Post Cromwell, the Irish lords and gentry were utterly destroyed and lost most if not all their lands and power. Their lands were given to the Cromwellian soldiers, who formed a new Protestant landed class (called the ascendancy). Many of the tower house/"castles" started out as Catholic fortresses and later became home of the Protestant gentry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nighteyes
This domination began well before Cromwell's invasion in the 1600's, though he did indeed complete it.
Throughout Ireland there are numerous castles. Only some of them were built by "the locals", and even those were seized, expanded and strengthened by the Normans (whom the Irish called Saxain, which essentially translates as "Saxon" or "English") beginning around 1170-1200. Whom did the Normans build, strengthen and improve these castles to defend against? Why, the Irish of course!
1- Irish Catholics were not allowed to own guns during this time.
2- Wealthy Irish Catholic families had sent their sons to Catholic strongholds such as Spain for a few generations at this point. Draining young resources in the country. Young & rich= ability to provide and raise money for revolutionary purposes and participate in the formation of forces.
3- During the American Revolution in Ireland there were stringent taxes laid against Irish goods for export along with many laws the Irish Ascendancy felt unjust (example the Penal Laws). That did not sit well with the leading Protestant elite. Many of whom did not consider themselves Irish as they were descendants of English settlers or descendants of the Irish who converted to the state religion many, many years before.
In the 1770s Henry Grattan formed the Patriot Party and raised a militia called the Irish Volunteers- to defend against the French threat of invasion as nearly half of the British regulars in Ireland were sent to the fight in the AR. However, the Irish Volunteers effectively gave Grattan and his supporters their own military force that could be used against the British as well. In consequence, Grattan was able to force the British government to repeal many of the laws giving the Ascendancy more control in Ireland. Grattan even went so far in the 1780s as to seek an Catholic Emancipation but could not rally enough support from the Irish MPs.
The difference between the pre and post Cromwellian period is that prior to the Cromwellian wars much of Ireland was still locally ruled by powerful Catholic Irish lords and gentry. British rule was more in name than in reality for these regions of Ireland. The handful of Norman lords had, by that point, so intermarried with the Irish that they were said to have become more Irish than the Irish themselves.
Ireland up through the 17th century was still a wild place, extremely poor and extremely primitive. Only the counties immediately surrounding Dublin (the pale) can be said to have been "settled." That's where the term, "beyond the pale," comes from for the area outside the pale was seen as wild, dangerous and uncontrollable.
Post Cromwell, the Irish lords and gentry were utterly destroyed and lost most if not all their lands and power. Their lands were given to the Cromwellian soldiers, who formed a new Protestant landed class (called the ascendancy). Many of the tower house/"castles" started out as Catholic fortresses and later became home of the Protestant gentry.
Cromwell also had a policy of agressively exporting 'excess population' via ships to places like the Carribean where they were the first laborors on sugar plantations. In some instances they were indentured for life, and some indentured for a time so long it might as well have been. Few ever left. When they proved not quite up to the contant work in the heat, Africans were imported instead, but for quite a while they were a mixed population and Irish were still sent. Cromwell continued to ship Irish elsewhere often by means of kidnapping and wholesale destruction of villages. His goal was to rid Ireland of all but the necessary Irish. His deportations are considered an attempt at genocide.
Cromwell also had a policy of agressively exporting 'excess population' via ships to places like the Carribean where they were the first laborors on sugar plantations. In some instances they were indentured for life, and some indentured for a time so long it might as well have been. Few ever left. When they proved not quite up to the contant work in the heat, Africans were imported instead, but for quite a while they were a mixed population and Irish were still sent. Cromwell continued to ship Irish elsewhere often by means of kidnapping and wholesale destruction of villages. His goal was to rid Ireland of all but the necessary Irish. His deportations are considered an attempt at genocide.
The descendants of the Irish, Scottish and the west of England can still be found in the Caribbean and are called "Redlegs". The singer Rhianna's paternal family are Redlegs.
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