WHY did WWII have to go down the way it did? (1800s, Hitler)

[Georgianbelle]

Originally Posted by LookingForAChange

I've been listening to pure and unbiased views from people such as Khalid Muhammad and Louis Farrakhan. All I'm saying is the U.S./West has a long history of trying to elevate their own importance, demonize others, and paint themselves as saints. So forgive me if I take a lot what I read from Americans with a grain of salt.

Oh yes, I am sure those two scholars are unbiased. Who forced Hitler to try to wipe out the Jewish people or attempt to take over the world? Was that America's fault or fiction invented to make Germany look bad? At least make sense when you argue.

[ThePage]

Originally Posted by LookingForAChange

I've been doing a lot of research on WWII lately and I can't exactly figure out WHY the Allied and Axis powers couldn't come to a reasonable and peaceful compromise before so much bloodshed took place. What is your understanding and viewpoint on why war had to commence and why so many countries had to get involved?

Here is my understanding after reading over and over those History books and watching those documentaries on TV.
I know some folks will be very upset by what I will say, but they have to take it easy because the war is over ,long ago.
I can't give exact dates, I will just tell what I think happened. Note: I'm not a professional Historian, I'm just an amateur, I read History for leisure ! so let's go:

1. Japan was humiliated by the allied. When? during the Versailles Treaty in France. There the delegates from Japan were looked down at by Europeans and Americans, no-one respected them although Japan was part of the coalition which defeated Germany during WWI.As we all know the Rising Sun Empire ( Japan ) prefers death to humiliation but Europeans did not understand that very important factor. That is one reason why Japan sided with Germany during ww2. Why would you shed blood alongside someone who would spit in your face after both of you accomplished victory over the enemy? It is a matter of common sense ,isn't it?
Conclusion: After WW1 French and British racism pushed Japan to side with Germany in WW2.

2. Germany was too humiliated by France and Great Britain after WW 1
They made Germany pay a huge fine over ww1, this led to a lot of harm to the Germany economy and the German people. During the Versailles Treaty, Europeans were not wise enough and they refused to listen to the U.S. President who asked them not to humiliate Germany that much.
Remember that wagon in France where Germany surrendered during ww1? Well , after Hitler took over France in 1940, he came himself to France and had the French delegation ( Petain and others) sign the surrender in that same wagon. This proved how upset he was.

3.After ww1 and the Versailles Treaty, from 1933 through 1939 The French were busy watching movies when an upset and humiliated Germany was building a hell fire war machinery. Moreover France, Belgium and Great Britain, were also busy enslaving Africans under forced labor in Africa ( beheading African resistance leaders, cutting people's hands, burning villages, raping women, just like what ISIS is doing today ) without being accountable to anybody. But at that time,in Europe, Hitler was getting ready to get even with them over the Versailles Treaty.

They (the French) trusted so much the Marginot Line. But to their big surprise the German army invaded France through Belgium during ww2 ,enslaving them and deporting many of them to forced labor camps in Germany, the same way they ( the French ) did to Africans in Africa.
One (irrational ??? ) reason why many thought Hitler was a kinda God's Hand. They believed "He ( Hitler) did to them what they did to us".

4. The Hydra rises from its ashes.
After ww1 ,due to he huge humiliation imposed upon Germany but France and Great Britain, Hitler felt this should never happen again. So to secure his beliefs, he promised at least a 1000- year German (the superior race) domination over the "degenerated" , from his viewpoint, starting with "the lazy and stupid French and British who survived thanks to their colonies". As one can clearly understand when the hydra rises from its ashes ( from death) it does not compromise. Fair enough ?

Remember, Hitler said in one of his speech Germany had no colony but it will dominate those who had. ( I think Germany lost some African colonies after being defeated in ww1. I would name Togo in west Africa and maybe Cameroon and Namibia, not to count some territories it lost in Europe ).

5.Hitler made the big mistake for betraying the treaty he signed with Stalin.
Some Historians said that Stalin did not believe his generals when they told him someone was wrong with Germany's intents. Stalin is believed to have been out of public view for at least one week or more when it became clear that Germany had indeed invaded the soviet Union.
You know what a dictator might do when he realizes you tried to outsmart him and make him look stupid. How could Stalin come to an agreement with Hitler after being betrayed by the latter ,moreover how could he have a ceasefire after or during the vicious battle of Stalingrad ?

6. Japan and China over Manchuria.
To my understanding Japan badly needed a foot on the big continent (Asia) for being isolated by sea from this huge Asian continent. The Japs felt the same way the British felt for being an Island cut off from continental Europe.
Why did Japan invade China instead of invading the Soviet Union? I read somewhere there was a peace treaty between Japan and the soviet Union at that time. And to my understanding Imperial Japan would see itself as not trustworthy had it unilaterally broken this treaty.
Hence It used the Mukden incident as an alibi to invade Manchuria. Could the Japs resolve this issue through dialogue with the Chinese? Remember we were in 1931 , eight years before the actual beginning of ww2. Countries were stiil competing to have colonies.
Japan couldn't agree with China the same way the United States couldn't agree with native American tribes about taking over the land of American Indians. It goes like this: "I need what you have, and badly. Whether we agree or not, whether we are friends or not, I'm going to take it as my property and the winner will write the law".


Done.
If anyone is mad at me, just take it easy. It is not a war. It is just a debate. See ya.

[Nick538]

World War II happened because Hitler wanted to grab land in Europe in preparation for a final showdown with the Soviet Union, in order to seize living space for his people, a vision clearly laid out in Mein Kampf.

After numerous land seizures, the British and French politicians signed the Munich Pact with Germany, which Chamberlain proclaimed would bring "peace in our time". This agreement carved up Czechoslovakia (without their approval) and convinced Hitler that the western Democracies would never fight him. After continued lies and betrayals, the western powers gave an unconditional guarantee to Poland that they would fight against Germany in the event of an attack on the Poles. Once Germany attacked Poland, the UK and France finally had to follow through on their guarantees.

On a related note, the Non-Aggression Pact that Hitler signed with Stalin probably doomed Germany in the East. It moved the jumping off point for the German attack on the Soviets several hundred miles to the west. By requiring the Wermacht to fight for that extra time and space, the winter offensive petered out just short of its' major objectives.

[LINative]

Originally Posted by LookingForAChange

That's the western/Americanized version of why it occurred. But what I'm looking for is the actual reason, not reasons coming from someone who wants to put all the blame on Germany and Japan.

The reason was the weakening of the traditional European security system and balance of power after WW1.

1. Russia/Soviet Union - the fall of Russia in 1917 and the creation of the Soviet Union meant that France and Britain lacked a strong ally in the East to help contain Germany. Because of communism, Russia was isolated from the other great powers.

2. Austria-Hungary - the collapse of the Austrian Empire left a vacuum of power in central Europe that Germany (and later the USSR) could exploit.

3. The United States - the Americans could have replaced the Russians in the allied Entente but instead the Americans retreated back into neutrality.

4. Great Britain - Britain was weaker in WW2 then before WW1 and was unable to play the policing role she played during the Pax Britannica.

5. China - China was very unstable with different factions fighting for power. This proved irresistible for Japanese imperialists.

Point 4 is key for understanding Japanese and Italian imperialism. For example, in 1914, the Royal Navy still ruled the waves with 59 battleships, 8 battlecruisers and 103 cruisers. But in 1939 the Royal Navy was down to 10 battleships, 3 battlecruisers and 58 cruisers. In 1939, there were 4 RN fleet aircraft carriers but they were not enough to make up the difference as a factor for deterrence. The Italians and Japanese were able to plan for overseas conquests that they never would have dared attempt during the height of Pax Britannica.

[Aredhel]

Originally Posted by LookingForAChange

Even if Germany was trying to expand and conquer it's surrounding countries, what business did European Americans have interfering with them and what moral ground did Europeans Americans have to stand on in trying to stop them?

If Germany didn't want European Americans interfering with them, perhaps Germany shouldn't have declared war on the United States? You ARE aware that Germany actually declared war first, right?

[Montana Griz]

Originally Posted by senecaman

For starters have you studied the "Munich Agreement "of 1938?

Munich Agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not to mention "Mein Kampf ".

Mein Kampf - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Very concise and intelligent answer. The above quote is directed to the original OP in Post in #1.

[Futurist110]

Originally Posted by LookingForAChange

I've been doing a lot of research on WWII lately and I can't exactly figure out WHY the Allied and Axis powers couldn't come to a reasonable and peaceful compromise before so much bloodshed took place. What is your understanding and viewpoint on why war had to commence and why so many countries had to get involved?

In short, because both of these sides had desires and goals which were incompatible with each other's.

For the record, though, as someone here already said, the future Allied Powers did try appeasing the Axis Powers, but when it became clear that the Axis Powers (specifically Germany) wanted more than the Allied Powers would give them, then World War II broke out soon afterwards.

[ThePage]

Point 5, second line in my first post
Read " something was wrong with Germany's intents"

[ThePage]

More reasons why the war dragged on:
A.Uncle Sam was tired of European warmongering nations. So
the Americans said to themselves, let these Europeans deal with their stuffs. We are not getting involved anymore after what we saw during WW1,that is why Churchill had to work hard to get the American involved.( But his huge diplomatic effort didn't help that much).
Had the US intervened earlier in the war,maybe it wouldn't last more than one year.
B. The war against communism was a factor.
The West was kind of happy Hitler was killing communists.They hoped he would put communists an "extinct species" list. Therefore they did not help Stalin that much and so the war went on.

Remember ,the death of some 6 million Jews was more hyped in the West than the death of 27 million soviet union citizens.

[Georgianbelle]

How can anyone with any intelligence claim the Holocaust was made up or that the war was the fault of the Jews? Have any of you traveled? Have you been to Germany? Have you seen the sites of the concentration camps? Photos of the survivors and the bodies of the ones that didn't survive? Wow. Ignorance really does run rampant.