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Old 01-12-2008, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Finally escaped The People's Republic of California
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I'd like to hear you guy's debate the merits of each of these WWII generals.. Lord Balfor the floor is yours Sir...
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Old 01-12-2008, 02:52 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
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While all performed mostly pretty well...

Montgomery - generally too cautious
Patton - sometimes too agressive.
Rommel - Just right.

Short and sweet.

Ken
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Old 01-13-2008, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Finally escaped The People's Republic of California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
Montgomery - generally too cautious
Patton - sometimes too agressive.
Rommel - Just right.
What led to Rommel's defeat in North Africa?
Did the German's really think that Patton was the Allies best General?
Did Ike and Montgomery see eye to eye on battle plans?
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Old 01-13-2008, 11:37 AM
 
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I know the OP asked about 3 generals but in my opinion the best battle General that German Military had was Heinz Guderian. He never lost a battle except to Hitler. He is the father of Blitzkieg (1929 theory of his) or at least it's implementaion as he used it in Poland and then again he smashed France with it. Hitler being so impressed allowed him to command the center army of the invasion of the Soviet Union and once again he smashed his way across Russia destroying every army he encountered as infact he was always outrunning his supply trains.

However Hitler interfeared as Guderian was on the outskirts of Moscow and sent him and his army south to help out the struggling southern army. Guderian was outraged at this and personally flew to Germany to protest to Hitler but to no prevail he could not persuade Hitler until it was too late as the Russian winter was setting in and froze the Germans who never recovered.

Guderian was one of the few Generals who had a set of Gonads to tell Hitler the way it was and to stand up to him so Hitler sacked him and he never was allowed to have a main battle command again.

Could you imagine Patton vs Guderian with both at full strength as on paper at least that would have been interesting.

Sorry that wasn't what the OP had asked for but history doesn''t give Germany's finest battle general enough recognition IMOP....

Last edited by Six Foot Three; 01-13-2008 at 12:15 PM.. Reason: Spell
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Old 01-13-2008, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Finally escaped The People's Republic of California
11,314 posts, read 8,656,908 times
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Oh I don't mind a post about Heinz Guderian. I just don't really know anything about him, But I am here to learn.. I probally should have included a Russian General as well, but I don't know of any.. As a baby of the cold war we never learnred much about the Russians Except the evil empire stuff. I remember have the duck and cover drills..
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Old 01-13-2008, 01:10 PM
 
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Yeah....Cali BassMan. I'll let LordBalfor see if he wants to answer about the Soviet Generals as thats not my strong points.

I do remember from my High School history classes that Pavlov the Soviet general of the western front opposite Guderian who was executed do to his severe losses although Stalin was repeatedly warned about the invasion and didn't allow his western front generals to do much as he thought that would inflame Hitler.

I believe Marshal Zhukov was the highest general in the Soviet Union as he was equal to General Eisenhower of the USA or General Keitel of Germany. I also remember Gen Timoshenko as one of the best battlefield generals as he made it all the way to Berlin conquering the German armies at the end of the war.

But again i'm not very well schooled on the Soviets.
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Old 01-13-2008, 08:16 PM
 
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I believe the defeat in Africa really started after Patton came in and took over the American Command. However, if I am not mistaken, I do believe that Rommel was very Ill in the North African campaign. He was eventually forced to go home and recover. He was notorious for having very bad stomach problems.

All were phenomenal generals. I truly believe that if Rommel was able to do what he wanted (without the Fuhrer calling the shots), the war would have turned out differently.

Anyone else know about this?
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Old 01-13-2008, 09:49 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,334,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali BassMan View Post
What led to Rommel's defeat in North Africa?
Did the German's really think that Patton was the Allies best General?
Did Ike and Montgomery see eye to eye on battle plans?
1) Outnumbered and outsupplied
2) Yeah, probably
3) No. Ike considered Monty to be a prima donna (which he was).

Ken
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Old 01-13-2008, 10:12 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,334,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6 FOOT 3 View Post
I know the OP asked about 3 generals but in my opinion the best battle General that German Military had was Heinz Guderian. He never lost a battle except to Hitler. He is the father of Blitzkieg (1929 theory of his) or at least it's implementaion as he used it in Poland and then again he smashed France with it. Hitler being so impressed allowed him to command the center army of the invasion of the Soviet Union and once again he smashed his way across Russia destroying every army he encountered as infact he was always outrunning his supply trains.

However Hitler interfeared as Guderian was on the outskirts of Moscow and sent him and his army south to help out the struggling southern army. Guderian was outraged at this and personally flew to Germany to protest to Hitler but to no prevail he could not persuade Hitler until it was too late as the Russian winter was setting in and froze the Germans who never recovered.

Guderian was one of the few Generals who had a set of Gonads to tell Hitler the way it was and to stand up to him so Hitler sacked him and he never was allowed to have a main battle command again.

Could you imagine Patton vs Guderian with both at full strength as on paper at least that would have been interesting.

Sorry that wasn't what the OP had asked for but history doesn''t give Germany's finest battle general enough recognition IMOP....
Great post.
Heinz Guderian was definitely a great commander - and may have been better than Rommel, but we'll never know - since as mentioned, he was relieved of battlefield command before things really turned south for the Third Reich. As mentioned he was the father of the Blitzkrieg and like the Britain B. H. Liddell Hart, was one of the early proponants of the "Indirect Approach" type of mobile combat.

Ken

PS - A couple of additional comments

1) Anyone interested in military strategy should check out Liddle Hart's book "Strategy" - one of the most influential books about military strategy ever written (it was one of the sources of inspiration for Guderian, Rommel and many other WW II commanders).

2) I find it wonderfully ironic that long after the war the sons of Patton and Rommel (one an officer in the US Army and one an officer in the new West German army) met and became good friend.
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Old 01-13-2008, 10:27 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,334,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleveburg View Post
I believe the defeat in Africa really started after Patton came in and took over the American Command. However, if I am not mistaken, I do believe that Rommel was very Ill in the North African campaign. He was eventually forced to go home and recover. He was notorious for having very bad stomach problems.

All were phenomenal generals. I truly believe that if Rommel was able to do what he wanted (without the Fuhrer calling the shots), the war would have turned out differently.

Anyone else know about this?
Actually the beginning of Rommel's defeat started at El Alamein - where he was stopped by a much larger force under Montegomery. The force which REALLY defeated the Germans in North Africa was the aircraft stationed on the island of Malta. This unsinkable aircraft carrier decimated the German and Italian supply convoys, result in a constant shortage of supplies, ammunition, reinforcements etc. The fact that Malta was never taken was the true undoing of the Axis in North Africa. By the time the Americans landed in Western North Africa Rommel was already in retreat across the Libyan desert.

One of the reasons I admire Rommel so much inspite of his being on the losing side, is that (like Robert E Lee 80 years earlier) he was almost always outnumbered and achieved many impressive victories anyway. It's always a whole lot easier to win when you have numerical superiority.

Ken
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