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I was watching a bit of the film Master and Commander this evening, and at one point, the ship's doctor refers to Russel Crow's ship as a Man o' War. Here's a brief description of the ship used in the film, photo included:
Is that a ship most sailors at any time would refer to as a Man o' War? I was under the impression that the name Man o' War was only for huge ships, such as the HMS Victory. Or did the term change with time?
Surprise of course is a frigate and I think a naval person would say what class-sloop, snow, frigate,etc and the doctor being an entirely un-maritime person would state man o'war. I recall there is a bit with the Captain lectures the Dr. on naval matters.
Since O'Brien used stories from the contemporary Naval Chronicle for his works I suspect it would be appropriate.
I am more familiar with C.S. Forester who also mined the Naval Chronicle and do not recall man of war being used but those works deal with dialogue among naval types with minor civilian intrusion.
Before I knew how to ID age of sail ships I probably would have used a lay term.
Frigates and larger armed naval vessels were called "man o' war" ships. Vessels smaller than frigates were classified as "unrated"
The name for the largest ships, the ones with multiple gundecks, was "Ship of the line" which meant that in a fleet action, they would be expected to go head to head with enemy ships of the line. A frigate would not be placed in that line, but it was still a "Man o' war" vessel.
At least that is what I have gleamed from reading a shipload of those age of fighting sail novels.
Last edited by Grandstander; 03-12-2015 at 07:25 AM..
The Royal Navy rated ships as first through sixth rate. Ships of the line were 1-3 rates, 4th rate was a transition rate during this period of time, most frigates were 5th rate, while smaller frigates of around 2 dozen guns were 6th rates. Smaller ships such as sloops, cutters, etc. were unrated.
I was watching a bit of the film Master and Commander this evening, and at one point, the ship's doctor refers to Russel Crow's ship as a Man o' War. Here's a brief description of the ship used in the film, photo included:
Is that a ship most sailors at any time would refer to as a Man o' War? I was under the impression that the name Man o' War was only for huge ships, such as the HMS Victory. Or did the term change with time?
You'd have to be a reader of Patrick O'Brian's amazing books. The surgeon, Stephen Maturin, is notoriously clueless about the naval life, continuously using the wrong terms. It is a running joke, for example, in the books, that he has no idea how to climb a ship's ladder or anything else. Despite this, he is a brilliant surgeon, naturalist and spy. I love those books.
What are the subgroups of ships that are ships of the line?
joe from daytona described the structure in his above post. Ratings were determined by size, i.e., the number of guns which were carried. First rates were the monsters, three decks and more than 100 guns.
The majority of the ships were 2nd and 3rd rates, two gundecks and somewhere between 64 and 90 guns, with the most common in European navies being the 74's. 4th rates had 50-60 guns and while classed as ships of the line, ceased being used in that function because they could not stand up to the broadsides from the higher ratings.
At the zenith of their power in the age of fighting sail, the beginning of the 19th Century, the Royal Navy had 18 first rates, 18 second rates, and more than 100 third rates which they could put to sea.
Actually, as long as the vessel had three masts, it could be classified as a Man o'War
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