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Old 04-04-2015, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Scotland
7,956 posts, read 11,845,946 times
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It was a whirlwind that nobody could have predicted. And when he got his grip on power he killed jews, members of the church, communists the lot all native Germans, that was before outbreak of war.
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Old 04-04-2015, 03:04 PM
 
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Does not fit your 'German Resistance' thread title at all, but I thought I'd mention someone I learned about when I visited Vilnius last year:

Chiune Sugihara

There's a small memorial in his honor in front of the Jewish museum in Vilnius.
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Old 04-04-2015, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Finland
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Not exactly a resistance figure, but a person and a hero who was overlooked for decades and has gotten the respect he deserves only slightly: Arndt Pekurinen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 04-04-2015, 05:12 PM
 
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Von Stauffenberg has been mythologised a lot: he was staunchly anti-Jewish and anti-Polish, like his fellow conjurers, he planned on continuing the war against the Soviet Union and he was absolutely contrary to any concession in the East.
Furthermore, like all generals and high ranking people, he was pro-Nazi as soon as Germany could win, then they all became anti-Nazi.
This doesn't deny his personal courage against such an evil as Hitler though.
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Old 04-04-2015, 08:56 PM
 
Location: Scotland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xander.XVII View Post
he was staunchly anti-Jewish and anti-Polish,
So was many German people, propoganda

like his fellow conjurers, he planned on continuing the war against the Soviet Union
War is different than genocide!

Furthermore, like all generals and high ranking people, he was pro-Nazi as soon as Germany could win, then they all became anti-Nazi
Easy to be pro Nazi until you discover what they were actually doing!

This doesn't deny his personal courage against such an evil as Hitler though.
These were different times. You stand with your country, just like America and Britain recently in the middle east - doesn't make them wars just. But if you stand by and let genocide happen then that's another story. These people were indoctrinated and were under an iron fist remember, which makes the courage to try and kill Hitler all the more brave. Most Germans sat idle - they didn't.
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Old 04-05-2015, 01:30 AM
 
Location: Hong Kong / Vienna
4,491 posts, read 6,344,128 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paull805 View Post
These were different times. You stand with your country, just like America and Britain recently in the middle east - doesn't make them wars just. But if you stand by and let genocide happen then that's another story. These people were indoctrinated and were under an iron fist remember, which makes the courage to try and kill Hitler all the more brave. Most Germans sat idle - they didn't.
Stauffenberg pretty much agreed with everything National Socialism stood for, including anti-semitism and whatnot. He just thought that Hitler was the wrong person to lead the Germans.

IMO Stauffenberg gets too much attention and that Tom Cruise movie was essentially whitewashing his real life and thoughts

Sophie and Hans Scholl? Huge fan of them.
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Old 04-05-2015, 01:54 AM
 
Location: Taipei
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Originally Posted by viribusunitis View Post
Sophie and Hans Scholl? Huge fan of them.
Isn't there a film about them?
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Old 04-05-2015, 02:50 AM
 
Location: Hong Kong / Vienna
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
Isn't there a film about them?
Yes, a really good one.

Sophie Scholl – The Final Days
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Old 04-05-2015, 06:07 AM
 
Location: Scotland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viribusunitis View Post
Sophie and Hans Scholl? Huge fan of them.
Without a doubt, me to. Actually had a tear in my eye at the end of that film.
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Old 04-05-2015, 06:41 AM
 
1,600 posts, read 1,888,802 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paull805 View Post
These were different times. You stand with your country, just like America and Britain recently in the middle east - doesn't make them wars just. But if you stand by and let genocide happen then that's another story. These people were indoctrinated and were under an iron fist remember, which makes the courage to try and kill Hitler all the more brave. Most Germans sat idle - they didn't.
Stauffenberg was perfectly fine with ethnically cleansing Poles and Jews to make room for Germans in the East and, like all generals, he was happy as soon as Germany seemed to be winning the war, then magically they all were against Hitler.
Those Generals and high ranking officers, unlike other idle Germans, had the power and the chances to act against Hitler, they didn't because they were in his favour when he was winning, then they feared the consequences of the defeat.
And no, the war against the Soviet Union was meant as a war of conquest and annihilation, not a normal war (and as a matter of fact, you didn't find any relevant opposer to the orders to systematically murder Soviet citizens).
The White Rose on the other hand was truly a group of brave and courageous idealists who were brutally murdered without a hint of mercy.
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