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Old 06-05-2015, 02:15 PM
 
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Facism is a form of nationalism although is there any ideal from fascism that is not in nationalism?

Facism has some ideals shared with socialism such as opposition to capitalism, collectivism and economy control, are these ideals present in nationalism?
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Old 06-05-2015, 02:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Ichig View Post
Facism is a form of nationalism although is there any ideal from fascism that is not in nationalism?

Facism has some ideals shared with socialism such as opposition to capitalism, collectivism and economy control, are these ideals present in nationalism?
Let me guess - school essay question?
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Old 06-06-2015, 06:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Ichig View Post
Facism is a form of nationalism although is there any ideal from fascism that is not in nationalism?

Facism has some ideals shared with socialism such as opposition to capitalism, collectivism and economy control, are these ideals present in nationalism?
Homework or not, I would say that nationalism has always the foundational component of fascism. In Germany and Italy the state was always first and primary. On the other hand , socialism is theoretically internationalist and with all power following to and from the working classes. While both systems are autocratic - although under the Marx's postulate the state would eventually "whither away." These may seem like minor differences, but they are fundamentally important distinction when considering whether fascism is a right or left wing movement.
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Old 06-06-2015, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Southeast Michigan
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Originally Posted by TheWiseWino View Post
Homework or not, I would say that nationalism has always the foundational component of fascism. In Germany and Italy the state was always first and primary. On the other hand , socialism is theoretically internationalist and with all power following to and from the working classes. While both systems are autocratic - although under the Marx's postulate the state would eventually "whither away." These may seem like minor differences, but they are fundamentally important distinction when considering whether fascism is a right or left wing movement.
Fascism was not a single movement. Hitler's form of fascism (National Socialism) was very different from Mussolini's fascism.

The common part was far right, deeply nationalist ideology combined with some left wing ideas about the role of government in regulating the relationship between corporations and worker unions. Hence the "socialism" part, although in this case the proper term would be Corporatism. Fascism always means close cooperation between government, major corporations, and trade unions - which fascists tried to overtake and incorporate into their order, rather than eliminate altogether.

The biggest differences with theoretical Marxism, I think, was the extreme nationalism and the relationship with businesses - the fascists were tolerating and supporting businesses as long as the businesses blindly supported the state, the communists believed any private enterprise to be inherently evil. It's these two things, extreme nationalism and corporatism, that make fascism right wing rather than left wing ideology.

In practice, however, it was all dependent on a particular dictator and his ideas, especially when it came to nationalism. E.g. Mussolini, early on, was a cultural nationalist, i.e. he believed that what you were was determined not by your blood (ethnicity) but by the culture you belonged to - so for him an Italian Jew was OK as long as he was a bearer of Italian cultural identity. Of course it didn't stop him from throwing the Italian Jews under the bus to please Hitler. Hitler, on the other hand, was an ultimate racist. And Franco, AFAIK, did not really persecute religious or ethnic minorities as long as they stayed loyal to his state.

Lenin preached internationalism and it seems he truly believed in it. Stalin preached internationalism but was a closeted Anti-Semite and, despite being Georgian, was really pushing Russian nationalism in his late years. So in practice, the biggest difference between Stalin and Mussolini was in their attitudes to private enterprise.

Nor was the Fascism necessarily liked by the far right conservatives, either. The head of German Abwehr, Admiral Canaris, was extremely conservative, yet he was also a devout Catholic who opposed the Nazi's on moral grounds, and was secretly helping the Allies.
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