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The difference is the U.S. President attended while the European states deliberately sent lower ranking emissaries. The snub was in their sending lower ranking people. It was a slight snub, but it was something the Japanese noticed and it was something the Europeans intended.
But at least two presidents, one prime minister, two kings and Prince Philip shows that at least half a dozen European countries sent high ranking officials. It was perhaps more the Emperor's role in WWII rather than him being Japanese that required thinking of who to send a bit more difficult than normal. It is not like he came into power after the war or that had no role in the war. Some thought he should have been punished or at least tried for his role in the war and the events leading up to the war. I do not think it was anti Japanese as much as anti Imperial Japan's role in the war and in China before the war.
No way. If anything I feel we sort of owe them an apology fro dropping TWO nuclear bombs in them and frying about 300,000 innocent civilians. The worst part of this is that dropping them was needless, since Japan was already well on their way to agreeing to our Surrender terms. Also..few people know we had been Firebombing Japanese cities like Tokyo with carrier-based planes carrying incendiary bombs for weeks before we nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
We dropped those nukes for only TWO reasons: all the time and money we spent--we had to see if they worked! And.....Russia had just sacked Berlin, the War in Europe was over and they were on their way to Japan. We were afraid they might try to claim it for their own and add it to their Communist Sphere of Influence. So we showed 'em what we had! Basically Fat Man was a big loud "Hands Off!" Message. The first shot fired in the Cold War that would last for another 45 years.
No way. If anything I feel we sort of owe them an apology fro dropping TWO nuclear bombs in them and frying about 300,000 innocent civilians. The worst part of this is that dropping them was needless, since Japan was already well on their way to agreeing to our Surrender terms. Also..few people know we had been Firebombing Japanese cities like Tokyo with carrier-based planes carrying incendiary bombs for weeks before we nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
We dropped those nukes for only TWO reasons: all the time and money we spent--we had to see if they worked! And.....Russia had just sacked Berlin, the War in Europe was over and they were on their way to Japan. We were afraid they might try to claim it for their own and add it to their Communist Sphere of Influence. So we showed 'em what we had! Basically Fat Man was a big loud "Hands Off!" Message. The first shot fired in the Cold War that would last for another 45 years.
Sorry, but I don't feel any need to apologize. I take no pleasure in the fact that we wiped out entire cities and caused untold death and suffering and misery, but none of it would have happened if Japan had not started the war against the United States with their sneak attack on Pearl Harbor. Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind. What goes around comes around. For that matter, if they had surrendered after the Battle of Leyte Gulf, after which they had no feasible way to halt our naval advance, ALL of their cities would have remained intact. (Leyte Gulf was in October 1944; the firebombing raids didn't start until March 1945.)
And no, they weren't even close to ready to surrender before we dropped the atomic bombs. There were feverishly preparing to fight to the death when we attempted the long-anticipated invasion of the home islands. Certainly, the Japanese leadership knew all about the incendiary raids (we flattened more than SIXTY of their major cities even before Hiroshima's number came up), and yet they still refused to give up. (Oh, and sorry to nitpick, but the firebombing raids were conducted by land-based B-29 bombers, not carrier planes; though the carrier planes did conduct some conventional raids as well.)
We had already tested the bombs at Alamogordo, New Mexico, so we knew they worked. I do agree with you, though, that one purpose (or at least intended side benefit) was to put the Soviets on notice.
For example, I am mixed Japanese/German/Irish/Hawaiian. People only focus on the German/Japanese part of me and define me as such. My friends have called me "enemy" in a joking kind of way.
I don't think people can ever forget about wwII here in the United States. There are a lot of things other people can say, a Japanese or a German person cannot say. You really have to be careful of what you say in order to be sensitive toward other people's feelings.
I love my heritage and I don't want to change anything about me. There will always be people who dislike me for whatever the reasons, and I try not to pay attention to the haters.
There are a lot of people still hate Japanese because of ww2, I am sure they are out there. There is nothing we can do. You just have to suck it up and deal with it.
It is always the older people who have problems with the Japanese, those people who refuse to let go I guess.
Last edited by lilyflower3191981; 08-21-2015 at 08:04 PM..
The worst part of this is that dropping them was needless, since Japan was already well on their way to agreeing to our Surrender terms.
This is absolutely not true.
The Allies surrender terms were stated in the 1943 Cairo conference and the 1945 Potsdam declaration to be "unconditional surrender".
No one in Japanese government supported accepting that. Not a single person.
Sure, there were some people in Japan that wanted to negotiate an end to the war, but they were not in power and also in no way advocating surrender. Before the atomic bombs were dropped, speaking of surrender was the death penalty.
Last edited by mensaguy; 08-26-2015 at 03:58 AM..
Reason: fixed quote
Sorry, but I don't feel any need to apologize. I take no pleasure in the fact that we wiped out entire cities and caused untold death and suffering and misery, but none of it would have happened if Japan had not started the war against the United States with their sneak attack on Pearl Harbor. Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind. What goes around comes around. For that matter, if they had surrendered after the Battle of Leyte Gulf, after which they had no feasible way to halt our naval advance, ALL of their cities would have remained intact. (Leyte Gulf was in October 1944; the firebombing raids didn't start until March 1945.)
And no, they weren't even close to ready to surrender before we dropped the atomic bombs. There were feverishly preparing to fight to the death when we attempted the long-anticipated invasion of the home islands. Certainly, the Japanese leadership knew all about the incendiary raids (we flattened more than SIXTY of their major cities even before Hiroshima's number came up), and yet they still refused to give up. (Oh, and sorry to nitpick, but the firebombing raids were conducted by land-based B-29 bombers, not carrier planes; though the carrier planes did conduct some conventional raids as well.)
We had already tested the bombs at Alamogordo, New Mexico, so we knew they worked. I do agree with you, though, that one purpose (or at least intended side benefit) was to put the Soviets on notice.
You should research the topic of Japan's mindset in the few weeks before we dropped the bomb a bit more. Maybe begin with these quotes from some Top American leaders from that time and after..........
You should research the topic of Japan's mindset in the few weeks before we dropped the bomb a bit more. Maybe begin with these quotes from some Top American leaders from that time and after..........
The quotes in your link only serve to reinforce what I've already read elsewhere. Sure, Japan's leaders were willing to talk about surrender -- with conditions. Japan's leaders were seriously deluded and in complete denial of reality when they thought that they could demand any conditions whatsoever. After all, consider the situation they found themselves in. More than 60 of their major cities had been destroyed; almost all of their naval fleet was sunk or immobilized; most of their industrial capacity had been wiped out; their natural resources had been exhausted; most of their army was trapped on island outposts; and their civilian population was on the brink of starvation. Their enemy, on the other hand, had it within their military and industrial power to completely and utterly destroy Japan and wipe the Japanese people from the face of the earth. (Think about it: what, aside from our own consciences, would have stopped us from completely eradicating the Japanese people, had we been so inclined? The only country that had even a remote chance of being able to stop us was the Soviet Union, and they would have probably been just as likely to join in with us, or sit on the sidelines and watch, rather than interfere.)
What Japan's leaders utterly failed to grasp was this: when you're flat on your back and being pummeled into total submission, YOU DON'T GET TO DEMAND CONDITIONS FROM YOUR CONQUEROR!!! It was not on us, the victors, to let them set conditions; nor was there any onus on us to have to worry about Japanese loss of face. That was their problem, not ours. Simply put, it was incumbent upon them to either accept our terms or face the consequences. Period.
As for the assertions that the bombs were unnecessary, that Japan would have been beaten without an invasion anyway, I find a lot of that to be simply the view of hindsight. Prior to the bombs (and the Soviet Union's entrance into the conflict), there had been no indication that Japan's leaders were inclined to accept our terms and surrender unconditionally. Maybe the conventional bombing campaign and the naval blockade would have eventually starved them out and made an invasion unnecessary; but there was certainly no indication that they would have done anything except fight to the last breath.
And even with all that, the ONLY reason that Japan surrendered was that the Emperor himself ordered it. Had he not done so, I am convinced that the war would have kept on going, even up through an invasion of the home islands -- maybe even up to the total elimination of the Japanese people.
The quotes in your link only serve to reinforce what I've already read elsewhere. Sure, Japan's leaders were willing to talk about surrender -- with conditions. Japan's leaders were seriously deluded and in complete denial of reality when they thought that they could demand any conditions whatsoever. After all, consider the situation they found themselves in. More than 60 of their major cities had been destroyed; almost all of their naval fleet was sunk or immobilized; most of their industrial capacity had been wiped out; their natural resources had been exhausted; most of their army was trapped on island outposts; and their civilian population was on the brink of starvation. Their enemy, on the other hand, had it within their military and industrial power to completely and utterly destroy Japan and wipe the Japanese people from the face of the earth. (Think about it: what, aside from our own consciences, would have stopped us from completely eradicating the Japanese people, had we been so inclined? The only country that had even a remote chance of being able to stop us was the Soviet Union, and they would have probably been just as likely to join in with us, or sit on the sidelines and watch, rather than interfere.)
What Japan's leaders utterly failed to grasp was this: when you're flat on your back and being pummeled into total submission, YOU DON'T GET TO DEMAND CONDITIONS FROM YOUR CONQUEROR!!! It was not on us, the victors, to let them set conditions; nor was there any onus on us to have to worry about Japanese loss of face. That was their problem, not ours. Simply put, it was incumbent upon them to either accept our terms or face the consequences. Period.
As for the assertions that the bombs were unnecessary, that Japan would have been beaten without an invasion anyway, I find a lot of that to be simply the view of hindsight. Prior to the bombs (and the Soviet Union's entrance into the conflict), there had been no indication that Japan's leaders were inclined to accept our terms and surrender unconditionally. Maybe the conventional bombing campaign and the naval blockade would have eventually starved them out and made an invasion unnecessary; but there was certainly no indication that they would have done anything except fight to the last breath.
And even with all that, the ONLY reason that Japan surrendered was that the Emperor himself ordered it. Had he not done so, I am convinced that the war would have kept on going, even up through an invasion of the home islands -- maybe even up to the total elimination of the Japanese people.
I guess this is the time to tell you my Grandfather was a military advisor to Harry Truman after He retired as a Navy pilot in 1940. HIs former C/O was already on FDR's staff and then stayed-on when he died and Harry took office in 1945. He recommended my Dad and he came aboard. So...he told me that the US and Japan had been hammering out Surrender terms for a good month before we dropped the bomb in early August of 1945. During these talks we were also mercilessly fire-bombing Japanese cities with incendiary bombs dropped from aircraft carriers cruising about 150 miles off of the main Japanese Island.
My Dad told me that, at the time we unleashed Fat Man, Tojo and His people had agreed to ALL the "Terms For Suing for Peace" (surrender) that we had demanded. Save for One: they wished only to keep their Beloved Emperor in place, as this is actually a part of their primary Religion, Confucionism.
My Dad always reckoned that had we not dropped the bomb and continued with Talks--and the fire bombing, Japan would have surrendered by the end of August.
I guess this is the time to tell you my Grandfather was a military advisor to Harry Truman after He retired as a Navy pilot in 1940. HIs former C/O was already on FDR's staff and then stayed-on when he died and Harry took office in 1945. He recommended my Dad and he came aboard. So...he told me that the US and Japan had been hammering out Surrender terms for a good month before we dropped the bomb in early August of 1945. During these talks we were also mercilessly fire-bombing Japanese cities with incendiary bombs dropped from aircraft carriers cruising about 150 miles off of the main Japanese Island.
My Dad told me that, at the time we unleashed Fat Man, Tojo and His people had agreed to ALL the "Terms For Suing for Peace" (surrender) that we had demanded. Save for One: they wished only to keep their Beloved Emperor in place, as this is actually a part of their primary Religion, Confucionism.
My Dad always reckoned that had we not dropped the bomb and continued with Talks--and the fire bombing, Japan would have surrendered by the end of August.
Sorry, but no.
What you said (that the US and Japan had been hammering out surrender terms before August 9) is not found in the records of Japan's Supreme Council for the Direction of the War, nor is it found in the records of the United States either.
I guess this is the time to tell you my Grandfather was a military advisor to Harry Truman after He retired as a Navy pilot in 1940. HIs former C/O was already on FDR's staff and then stayed-on when he died and Harry took office in 1945. He recommended my Dad and he came aboard. So...he told me that the US and Japan had been hammering out Surrender terms for a good month before we dropped the bomb in early August of 1945. During these talks we were also mercilessly fire-bombing Japanese cities with incendiary bombs dropped from aircraft carriers cruising about 150 miles off of the main Japanese Island.
My Dad told me that, at the time we unleashed Fat Man, Tojo and His people had agreed to ALL the "Terms For Suing for Peace" (surrender) that we had demanded. Save for One: they wished only to keep their Beloved Emperor in place, as this is actually a part of their primary Religion, Confucionism.
My Dad always reckoned that had we not dropped the bomb and continued with Talks--and the fire bombing, Japan would have surrendered by the end of August.
Japan's primary religion is not Confucianism. It was and is Shinto.
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Japan was not about to surrender
