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Old 09-08-2015, 09:26 PM
 
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Disregarding everything in this link except statistics, are these numbers correct? These are the kinds of numbers that brought up this thread. They are all over the net...how accurate they are I do not know...but if they are accurate, for less than 1% to have that much control is mind blowing to me...

The Reasons Historians Call WWII A 'Jewish Creation'
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Old 09-08-2015, 09:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Potential_Landlord View Post
So which of the major German Corps did the Jews supposedly control pre-WW2 and who took their control away afterwards? The Nuremberg trials? The Allies? This sounds a bit like Nazi nonsense here. Please show us how the Jews controlled Siemens, Bayer, BASF, Daimler, Krupp etc. and then lost control after WW2?
I'm asking questions about a time period I did not live in and don't know much about. I'm sorry you have a problem with that. Goodbye.
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Old 09-09-2015, 12:37 AM
 
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Depending upon who you believe the Jews of Europe have been persecuted by one monarch/government or another for hundreds if not thousands of years.

It does not help that Jews as a group are notably industrious, studious and as a result usually wealthy. Most all the great money lenders and or bankers of Europe historically were Jews. Many of the Jewish faith take seriously Chazakah, the command about owning property.

Christians from kings on down may have resented having to borrow money from the Jews, but often they were the only ones with funding to lend.

European Christians by and large have never wholly trusted those of the Jewish faith. Everything the latter believes in goes against the former.

Jewish men made up several of the murderers who killed Czar Nicholas II and his family. If you believe the story supposedly the orders to murder the Romanovs came from a powerful financial Jewish syndicate in New York City.

Long story short the answer to OP's query is probably yes, Jews all over Europe had amassed great fortunes and wealth along with industries including banking, real estate and so forth.

One of the first things Nazi's did when occupying lands/countries is start making lists of the Jewish population and their assets. As Jews found the noses tided tighter around their necks many of their former "friends" and neighbors took delight in humiliating them and or sticking the knives in deeper. In Austria Jewish families that once lived in very wealthy parts of town were forced to lick the sidewalks while their neighbors (and former friends) looked on an applauded/cheered.

Everywhere Jewish property and assets were systematically stripped both by orders of the Nazis and or local governments under so called "orders". In places like France several enterprising persons preyed on Jews.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcel_Petiot

MFS-The Resource Center Blog: ⅏Did You Know: Marcel Petiot, The French Doctor Who Was A Serial Killer

Proof of this "hatred" if you will of Jews in Europe can be found in that over seventy years since WWII ended state museums, art galleries and other sources in France and other European countries still have not come clean about Jewish property seized or otherwise came into their hands during or after WWII much less make attempts at return.

Prior to WWII many European Jews amassed great collections of art, sliver, properties and other valuable assets that Christians were more than envious about. Well they (Christian Europe) got them back the old fashioned way and aren't in any hurry to return them all.
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Old 09-09-2015, 10:46 AM
 
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
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Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
It - ie, anti-semitism in Germany - existed for many centuries before World War I.

The Middle Ages were a terrible time for Jews in Germany. The Crusaders would often slaughter Jews while en route to the Holy Land, and the Black Death saw quite a bit of blame on Jews for the deaths, with the predictable reprisals against them. Things generally improved during the Enlightenment, but there were still spates of Jewish persecution. There were pogroms in the 19th century. Even during the good times, when the populace was inclined towards benevolence, there was a simmering anti-Semitism just waiting for times to turn and the people to cast about for the usual scapegoats.
Anti-Semitism was a constant social condition in pretty much all Christian nations.

The worldview of both Christians and Jews, as supported by their own shared and mutually exclusive religious texts, outlined and enforced an adversative relationship between the two groups. And in a society overwhelmingly dominated by a majority (Christian) group, the minority (Jewish) group is going to be prone to scapegoating.

This condition is not rooted merely in a racial or ethnic divide attributable to xenophobia, but supported by the very nature of the competing religious and spiritual philosphies of Christians and Jews as proscribed by their interpretations of their religious texts.

Some philosophies state that all conflict is rooted in competition for resources. Christians and Jews were competing for what they considered the ultimate spiritual resource and what they considered the final arbiter in all matters, earthly and unearthly, the favor and prefered status before the Judeo-Christain God.

This fact alone sets up a very precarious status for whichever is the minority group in a society governed on fundamental religious precepts.

But by and large, and at the risk of whitewashing history, conditions in Europe were not unfavorable for Jewish populations most of the time, even in a society which marginalized them in certain significant ways. Pogroms and the Jewish Holocaust were punctuations of extereme violence against Jews and were instigated by acute societal stresses, not a constant norm.

I don't mean to validate these events, nor do I mean to say that it was great living in an anti-Semitic society for Jews even in the best of times, but the mere fact that Jews maintained their identity and religion and flourished in most of Europe for most of a 1,500+ year period is evidence that anti-Semitism, while indefensible, was not a death warrant for Jewish culture and people in Europe. Even the Nazi regime failed.
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Old 09-09-2015, 11:50 PM
 
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To get an idea of the wealth and *power* some European Jewish families amassed prior to WWII visit the Musée Nissim De Camondo in Paris, France.

It was built by Count Moïse de Camondo.

Musée Nissim de Camondo

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mus%C3...sim_de_Camondo

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mo%C3%AFse_de_Camondo

What saved this wonderful place and its possessions was the fact after his son's death the Count turned the place into a museum and gave it over to France.

After his death the daughter along with her husband and children continued living at the estate and running the museum created by the count. Sadly for them WWII came along and the German occupation of France.

The Nazis considered Mme Reinach though now a converted Roman Catholic and divorced from her Jewish husband none the less still a Jew. So she, her new husband and two children were forcibly removed from their palatial home, taken to Drancy, transported to Auschwitz and all subsequently murdered.

Had the estate been just property of another wealthy Jewish family it surely would have been looted and plundered by the Nazis with the contents now scattered all across Europe.
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Old 09-10-2015, 08:29 AM
 
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I will just make a couple of comments here.

First the idea that Jews were all wealthy industrialists is a nonsense. Most Jews were relatively poor and especially in eastern Europe. Occupations such as glazier, tailor, painter or postman were just as common amongst Jews as they were in the rest of the population.

Second, there had been widespread persecution of Jews in eastern Europe since around 1860 and even before. This prompted around three million to flee/emigrate between 1860 and 1910. Most went to the USA but a lot also went to Western Europe.

Third, a great many of these Jewish immigrants integrated and quite a lot either became non-religious or converted. In Nazi Germany, the racial laws were based on descent. So, even if your grandparents had converted or become non-religious, you were still Jewish in the eyes of the state.
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Old 09-10-2015, 09:19 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
First the idea that Jews were all wealthy industrialists is a nonsense. Most Jews were relatively poor and especially in eastern Europe. Occupations such as glazier, tailor, painter or postman were just as common amongst Jews as they were in the rest of the population.
I agree, but I would change common to "about as common". The discrimination, sporadic violence, varying degrees of social harassment that Jews faced in eastern Europe led them to emphasize education as a way out. The "out" component could be the urban ghetto or the rural sharecropping village. This emphasis on education did not turn every Jew into the proverbial "brain surgeon", and there were plenty of poor Jews, but it did yield results over the generations.

As a side note Chinese Indonesians (a substantial number of whom are christians) are very similar to old world jews. They face sporadic violence, discrimination and varying degrees of social harassment. They also emphasize education as a way out of the 'hood or the rural sharecropping area with resentful youth listenting to rap and Jihad sermons. Not all are wealthy, there are plenty of poor ones, but the cultural emphasis on education has paid off for Chinese Indonesians. Like jews in europe, these successes have led to exaggerated stereotypes and jealousy by Indonesians.
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Old 09-11-2015, 07:13 AM
 
Location: Texas
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Default did the Germans view the Jews the same as poor Americans view the 1% today?

Nope.

The hatred in Germany was orders of magnitude greater than anything in contemporary America. And it was government sanctioned, based on ethnic/religious differences.
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Old 09-11-2015, 02:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
Nope.

The hatred in Germany was orders of magnitude greater than anything in contemporary America. And it was government sanctioned, based on ethnic/religious differences.
Agreed.

Point of my posts was to show that even Jews who believed they would be "protected" by their social connections and or standing found their friends and others turned on them.

The Nazis would not have been able to transport, murder , force into slave labor, loot, pillage and so forth the Jewish population of not only Germany but conquered lands so easily without extensive compliance by so called "Christians".

Read something somewhere that said the Nazis didn't force any member of military or German civilian (perhaps others) to work in the death/slave labor camps and or be part of the death bureaucracy; that is if you wanted out a transfer could be arranged. Those that were there wanted to be and had no problems with what was going on and or their part.

OTOH you had places like Italy where this hatred of Jews either didn't exist in large part and or for various other reasons military, elected officials along with local populace refused to comply with Nazi demands to hand over. Yes, many Italian Jews were sent to the camps but the ratio was far less (IIRC) than in places like France.
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Old 09-11-2015, 05:26 PM
 
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Agreed.

Point of my posts was to show that even Jews who believed they would be "protected" by their social connections and or standing found their friends and others turned on them.

The Nazis would not have been able to transport, murder , force into slave labor, loot, pillage and so forth the Jewish population of not only Germany but conquered lands so easily without extensive compliance by so called "Christians".

Read something somewhere that said the Nazis didn't force any member of military or German civilian (perhaps others) to work in the death/slave labor camps and or be part of the death bureaucracy; that is if you wanted out a transfer could be arranged. Those that were there wanted to be and had no problems with what was going on and or their part.

OTOH you had places like Italy where this hatred of Jews either didn't exist in large part and or for various other reasons military, elected officials along with local populace refused to comply with Nazi demands to hand over. Yes, many Italian Jews were sent to the camps but the ratio was far less (IIRC) than in places like France.
Yeah. It's quite frightening how easily people across Europe, even in occupied countries turned in their Jewish fellow-countrymen for a little loot they received from the Nazis. The Dutch were particularly good at that.
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