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Christian Europe is rather diverse and the history of the relationship between Jews and the various European nations that they lived in cannot be lumped together in broad generalizations. So my advice is to pick a specific country, with a particular and reasonable time frame.
In the Holy Roman Empire, monarchs who confiscated the money of Jewish banks and lenders where would they get money the next time they were in dire need of it? Lending money with interest was prohibited by the Catholic Church, which for the most part was all of continental Europe. Only Jews were allowed to do so.
How does one ban together one of Europe's smallest minorities that was scattered across the continent? I would suppose that any attempt to assemble a Jewish army some yet to identified in the face of well financed and trained armies seems rather facetious one would think.
Why dont the Monarchs just go ahead and print the money or create it somehow on their own? Why do they have to go through the Jews? Or is it some decree the Pope made? But in that case, were the Jews acting as agents for the Vatican?
How does one ban together a small minority? Well, for one thing I dont understand how they become so scattered in the first place. Other tribes like the Magyars, Huns, Basques, stayed together and took over territory. For some odd reason the jews were split up, and implanted in various locations, and yet managed to remain a distinct and exclusive group. Well of course some Jews definitely left and became one of the locals. Different viking groups settled all over Europe but managed to mostly assimilate or even become the lords of the area like Normandy.
I sincerely cannot believe that this thread has been allowed to remain open, especially after the virile anti-semitism came spewing out complete with conspiracy theories about how the Jews run the world...
Quote:
Originally Posted by madison999
You're trolling in this thread. Go back and read post #27 and tell me why exactly you are posting in this thread yet again? Go back to the political controversies forum.
Do you know the difference between a link and a quote? Obviously not since you want to throw accusations around. I don't give a **** about the slpc or jeff rense, whoever that even is. Yes, he wrote the article I LINKED to.
Are you a fascist? This is a thread about statistics, income, and views the majority may have had against a minority.
In short, unless you want to comment on the actual questions posed in this thread and refrain yourself from trying to dictate the content in it's entirety, you are a troll. Go away.
No, this is an attempt to bait into a thread about Jew bashing. The author of the article you linked to absolutely matters because the man is a raging anti-semite knuckle drugger that propagates any conspiracy theory he comes across. His article is FAKE, MADE UP, COMPLETE BS.
The simple fact of the matter is encapsulated by this quote from the USHMM:
...the Jews in western Europe—Germany, France, Italy, the Netherlands, and Belgium—made up much less of the population and tended to adopt the culture of their non-Jewish neighbors. They dressed and talked like their countrymen, and traditional religious practices and Yiddish culture played a less important part in their lives. They tended to have had more formal education than eastern European Jews and to live in towns or cities.
Jews could be found in all walks of life, as farmers, tailors, seamstresses, factory hands, accountants, doctors, teachers, and small-business owners. Some families were wealthy; many more were poor. Many children ended their schooling early to work in a craft or trade; others looked forward to continuing their education at the university level. Still, whatever their differences, they were the same in one respect: by the 1930s, with the rise of the Nazis to power in Germany, they all became potential victims, and their lives were forever changed.
The TRUTH is that by and large Jews did not control any major German industries. The wealthy remained the "Junkers" class of landowners that existed under the Kaiser in the old Prussian model. Not a single major German conglomerate was owned by Jews.
Jews who were not simple laborers (the vast majority) were more than likely to be in classed in one of two ways: a) middle class shop owners or merchants or b) "intelligentsia" such as artists, doctors, scientists, performers, teachers, etc.
The simple fact of the matter is that anti-Semitism was alived and well in Germany and Europe as a whole for a very long time. It was virtually impossible for many Jews to reach high station. The path most took to success was the university and gaining an education. The Jewish "elite" in pre-WW2 Germany were the doctors, lawyers, professors and scientists. Indeed these were the people driven out of Germany in the early years of the Nazi's moves against the Jewish population. They had the means and they fled.
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Originally Posted by littlemissrock
Hate to break it to you but the Jews today in the US pretty much control everything too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by madison999
you'll get no argument here
...and here is the evidence of the raging anti-Semitism driving this thread (might as well toss urkoz in here as well, but I didn't quote him). Statements like this are completely counter-factual and are driven by hatred that flourishes in small minds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by keymaker221
The Jews declared war on Germany long before WW2.
A long favored statement by those who frequent Stormfront and read whatever the IHR publishes. This is simply not true. After the passing of the Nuremberg Laws Jewish communities in many nations including Britain and the US held meetings. Among those was the call for a boycott against Germany. This boycott meant that Jewish communities would not purchase products from Germany or do business with Germany. However this took place AFTER the Nuremberg Laws had been passed that stripped Jews of their citizenship.
Why dont the Monarchs just go ahead and print the money or create it somehow on their own? Why do they have to go through the Jews? Or is it some decree the Pope made? But in that case, were the Jews acting as agents for the Vatican?
FIAT currency didn't exist then. Money was made out of precious metal with gold, silver and copper being the most common and universally accepted sources. Anyone could technically mint coins, but their value was fixed by what they were made out of. So, when lending money, it became a physical transfer, not a "paper" transfer.
It is a myth that the Church "banned" usury. They certainly preached against it, but it was a very common practice for Christians and the Church itself often lent or borrowed money. It was simply a matter of business convenience for a group locked out of virtually any other means of wealth generation to take up the practice. The Jews then became very good at it and provided an easy and reliable source. Since borrowing money helped fuel economic activity laws were then passed to protect the moneylenders to ensure that they were repaid.
A long favored statement by those who frequent Stormfront and read whatever the IHR publishes. This is simply not true. After the passing of the Nuremberg Laws Jewish communities in many nations including Britain and the US held meetings. Among those was the call for a boycott against Germany. This boycott meant that Jewish communities would not purchase products from Germany or do business with Germany. However this took place AFTER the Nuremberg Laws had been passed that stripped Jews of their citizenship.
It can be put into different kinds of contexts but the fact remains that with these actions the Jewish people set themselves up to be enemies of their own countries.
Also I think you said 'anti-semitism' about 10+ times in your post which is funny to me, an actual semite. I'm Assyrian which are part of the middle eastern semitic races. Almost none of the Jews in Europe at that time had any semitic blood running through their veins.
It can be put into different kinds of contexts but the fact remains that with these actions the Jewish people set themselves up to be enemies of their own countries.
Also I think you said 'anti-semitism' about 10+ times in your post which is funny to me, an actual semite. I'm Assyrian which are part of the middle eastern semitic races. Almost none of the Jews in Europe at that time had any semitic blood running through their veins.
How could a British or American jew wanting to boycott German goods be an enemy of his or her own country? Your statement makes zero sense.
I sincerely cannot believe that this thread has been allowed to remain open, especially after the virile anti-semitism came spewing out complete with conspiracy theories about how the Jews run the world...
No, this is an attempt to bait into a thread about Jew bashing. The author of the article you linked to absolutely matters because the man is a raging anti-semite knuckle drugger that propagates any conspiracy theory he comes across. His article is FAKE, MADE UP, COMPLETE BS.
The simple fact of the matter is encapsulated by this quote from the USHMM:
The TRUTH is that by and large Jews did not control any major German industries. The wealthy remained the "Junkers" class of landowners that existed under the Kaiser in the old Prussian model. Not a single major German conglomerate was owned by Jews.
Jews who were not simple laborers (the vast majority) were more than likely to be in classed in one of two ways: a) middle class shop owners or merchants or b) "intelligentsia" such as artists, doctors, scientists, performers, teachers, etc.
The simple fact of the matter is that anti-Semitism was alived and well in Germany and Europe as a whole for a very long time. It was virtually impossible for many Jews to reach high station. The path most took to success was the university and gaining an education. The Jewish "elite" in pre-WW2 Germany were the doctors, lawyers, professors and scientists. Indeed these were the people driven out of Germany in the early years of the Nazi's moves against the Jewish population. They had the means and they fled.
...and here is the evidence of the raging anti-Semitism driving this thread (might as well toss urkoz in here as well, but I didn't quote him). Statements like this are completely counter-factual and are driven by hatred that flourishes in small minds.
A long favored statement by those who frequent Stormfront and read whatever the IHR publishes. This is simply not true. After the passing of the Nuremberg Laws Jewish communities in many nations including Britain and the US held meetings. Among those was the call for a boycott against Germany. This boycott meant that Jewish communities would not purchase products from Germany or do business with Germany. However this took place AFTER the Nuremberg Laws had been passed that stripped Jews of their citizenship.
Apparently I cannot rep you again but want you to know that I agree 100% with you.
How could a British or American jew wanting to boycott German goods be an enemy of his or her own country? Your statement makes zero sense.
Sure it doesn't now in 2015's modern western context. I prefer to try to understand what Germans of that era were thinking when they heard of Jews boycotting their own countries.
It can be put into different kinds of contexts but the fact remains that with these actions the Jewish people set themselves up to be enemies of their own countries.
I fail to see how the actions of American and British Jews made German Jews enemies of their own country. The entire "stabbed in the back" myth is just that, a myth. During WW1 and right up to the beginnings of the Nazi persecution, Jews were loyal German citizens.
Quote:
Also I think you said 'anti-semitism' about 10+ times in your post which is funny to me, an actual semite. I'm Assyrian which are part of the middle eastern semitic races. Almost none of the Jews in Europe at that time had any semitic blood running through their veins.
I used the proper phrase according to every English dictionary in the world...
"Semitic" refers to a language family, not a particular race or ethnic group. The term antisemitism became linked with hatred of Jews when Wilhlem Marr found the "League of Antisemites" in Germany in the 1880's. The League specifically targeted Jews living in Germany. If the application of the term is perfect or not, it does not matter as the commonly accepted meaning of the word is crystal clear.
Further, Eastern European Jews are also not descended from Khazars as the common racist myth would go. Genetic studies of Jewish populations the world over have shown many genetic markers indicating a shared ancestry. This of course has been watered down over the years as the diaspora lived in various areas and inter-married. To say that "Ashkenazi" are not "Jews" is a ridiculous and racist statement.
Finally, what does it matter? So, you are an Assyrian which is part of the Semitic language family. Does that somehow mean people don't hate Jews? Does that invalidate any of points? No, it does not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by keymaker221
Sure it doesn't now in 2015's modern western context. I prefer to try to understand what Germans of that era were thinking when they heard of Jews boycotting their own countries.
Germans of that era weren't thinking or they wouldn't have allowed the Nuremberg Laws to be passed stripping Jews of their citizenship. Besides what would this boycott actually accomplish? Nothing, it was a symbolic gesture of solidarity from Jews in other countries.
Germans of that era weren't thinking or they wouldn't have allowed the Nuremberg Laws to be passed stripping Jews of their citizenship. Besides what would this boycott actually accomplish? Nothing, it was a symbolic gesture of solidarity from Jews in other countries..
Again, you're looking at it from the perspective of PC modern 2015. You think it's just a meaningless symbolic gesture in hindsight, yet in 30s Germany even that will make you out to be against your own country. The Jews obviously didn't deserve what happened to them, but they did enough to be considered enemies by many in their own countries.
Quote:
I used the proper phrase according to every English dictionary in the world...
Just because it's 'official' doesn't make it any less ridiculous though. Jews of Europe were not semitic racially, and yes it is an actual race of middle eastern people such as myself and other ones like Arabs and many ancient Mesopotamians, it is not just a language, and you are using a race-card so it applies even less. Would you call someone who isn't slavic a slavic? If you type in google "Jews are not the original Hebrew semites" you will see that even Jewish scholars and historians having written articles denouncing the term semitic for the Jewish people. I just thought it was funny how much you overused that term against me of all people. If you used something proper like "anti-Jewish" then I wouldn't have cared.
OK, here: your statement that "The Jews declared war on Germany long before WW2" is anti-Jewish. Gramatically satisfied now?
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