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Old 10-18-2015, 05:36 PM
 
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On April 22rd 1945, 8 days before Hitler's suicide and 15 days before Germany surrendered, Hitler's top advisers suggested that he redirect remaining troops and escape to the mountains around Berchtesgaden and extend the Third Reich.

What if Hitler had taken their advice?

Was such a move logistically possible at this point in time?

What would have been the outcome if he had done so?
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Old 10-21-2015, 09:36 AM
 
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the Russians would have obliterated them...we would have let them take it
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Old 10-21-2015, 10:55 AM
 
Location: southern kansas
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At that point Germany's government functions, infrastructure, communications, military forces, etc., were pretty much destroyed. Even if it were possible for Hitler & his cronies to escape to the south, I doubt it would have made much difference in the outcome of the war or the timing of the surrender. The conflict may have dragged on for a few more weeks, or months at the most, but that's about it.
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Old 10-21-2015, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
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I see it as having two possible outcomes. One, Hitler and his remaining troops enfold themselves into the mountains and use that area as their last stand -- where they are defeated, probably within no more than a month later than the war ended IRL. Or, two, Hitler and his remaining troops cease organized resistance and instead become guerrilla fighters. They will prove to be a nuisance to the Allied forces, and may drag things out a bit longer (assuming that the "legitimate" German government has officially surrendered, it's harder to stamp out a guerrilla campaign when the "official" war is over) but the end result will be the same.

Simply put, by April 1945, the Third Reich had no way to perpetuate itself for any further length of time beyond a month or maybe two. There is simply no way that the Allies (most especially the Soviet Union) would have accepted anything less than unconditional surrender.
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Old 10-21-2015, 05:33 PM
 
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More people would have died . Allied bombers already bombed his little mountain retreat by then . So he would have eventually been caught . He should have offered peace back in 42 to recoup and make the stupid decision to declare war on the United States
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Old 10-21-2015, 05:46 PM
 
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The A bomb was originally intended to be used on Germany. So between the Russians moving fast on the eastern front and the Allies moving in the west Hitler had ZERO chance of extending the Reich. If the Russians had been stalled the A bomb would have been used.
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Old 10-22-2015, 02:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MrsRosencranz View Post
The A bomb was originally intended to be used on Germany. So between the Russians moving fast on the eastern front and the Allies moving in the west Hitler had ZERO chance of extending the Reich. If the Russians had been stalled the A bomb would have been used.
Exactly!

Hitler and top Nazis in that bunker as did most Germans in the west knew the game was up. If for nothing else the advancing Russian military was heading fast for Berlin raping, looting and pretty much leaving a scorched earth path in their wake.

The Allies bombed the heck out of Berchtesgaden on April 25th 1945 and took the place (with little resistance) not long later. They were aware and were worried/thought Hitler and or top Nazis would attempt to escape to the place to make a last stand so to speak.

Even if Hitler had made it to Berchtesgaden the Russians and Allies would have bombed and shelled the place off the face of that mountain and sifted through the rubble to get at Hitler. Yes they wanted him that badly.

Would also add that the one thing Germans including Nazis feared most in 1945 was the advancing Russian military. Things had gone very wrong and Hitler along with top Nazis knew not only was the game up but that Russia was going to pay Germany back in spades.

A steady stream of refugees from the East arriving in advance of the Russians confirmed what German military had feared (the raping, looting, scorched earth etc...) thus Hitler knew he could expect little sympathy. He was too big a prize for either the Russians or Americans to allow to vanish via the "ratlines" into South America or some other hideout. The Americans would have tried him for war crimes then executed. The Russians would have taken Hitler back to "Stalin" where all sorts of *joys* would await. A quick painless death probably not one of them.

Last edited by BugsyPal; 10-22-2015 at 03:23 PM..
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Old 10-22-2015, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Frost View Post
On April 22rd 1945, 8 days before Hitler's suicide and 15 days before Germany surrendered, Hitler's top advisers suggested that he redirect remaining troops and escape to the mountains around Berchtesgaden and extend the Third Reich.

What if Hitler had taken their advice?

Was such a move logistically possible at this point in time?

What would have been the outcome if he had done so?
My guess is that if Hitler had tried to escape, either we or the Russians would of stood a chance of capturing him alive. If so, the world would of had the pleasure of executing the bastard ourselves... Kinda wish he'd tried.

German soldiers on the other hand... judging by the vast number of Germans surrendering in those days I'd argue it's safe to say they'd had enough and I doubt there was any morale left to keep up the fight guerrilla style in the mountains for any length of time.

Anyway, the war was lost for the Germans as early as 1943 (as soon as Soviet industrial capacity exceeded that of Germany). At that point, the ever-stubborn A.H. realized his days were numbered so he kicked the "Final Solution" into high gear, gambled his remaining resources into risky, highly advanced (and highly unproven) but potentially game changing weapon systems, yelled a lot at his subordinates and probably cried a lot when he was alone.
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Old 12-18-2015, 05:36 PM
 
Location: Type 0.7 Kardashev
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Frost View Post
On April 22rd 1945, 8 days before Hitler's suicide and 15 days before Germany surrendered, Hitler's top advisers suggested that he redirect remaining troops and escape to the mountains around Berchtesgaden and extend the Third Reich.

What if Hitler had taken their advice?

Was such a move logistically possible at this point in time?

What would have been the outcome if he had done so?
Possible? Certainly.

During the nights of August 21, 22 and 23 a total of twenty flights carried most of Hitler's staff from Berlin to Berchtesgaden. Hitler himself equivocated on where to make his final stand. He had laid plans for both eventualities - staying in Berlin and retreating to the mountains. On August 15, Hitler had issued an order for the defense of the Reich in the event that it be split in two, with the possibility that communications between the two sectors be broken. He had named Donitz the supreme commander of the north in that eventuality, and Kesselring similarly the supreme commander in the south. That he named contingent commanders for both sectors indicates that he was not certain where he might be if/when Soviet and Allied forces met and split the Reich - in the north in Berlin or in the south in the mountains.

That said, while Hitler kept his options open it appears that he had always strongly leaned towards remaining in Berlin. He found the idea of retreat distasteful, and worried that he might be killed fleeing south (the flights were hazardous) and that would be an ignominious death.
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Old 12-18-2015, 07:28 PM
 
Location: SoCal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsRosencranz View Post
The A bomb was originally intended to be used on Germany. So between the Russians moving fast on the eastern front and the Allies moving in the west Hitler had ZERO chance of extending the Reich. If the Russians had been stalled the A bomb would have been used.
Frankly, I wonder what exactly Hitler would have thought about the A-Bomb. After all, the A-Bomb was largely built by Jews, so ...
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