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Old 11-13-2015, 09:07 PM
 
7,578 posts, read 5,320,714 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azul91 View Post
Yes, but I am talking about colonies. All of the successful ones have previously been British.
Thanks for the clarification.

That being the case, amongst former British colonies there are amazing successes and abject failures, so let me return to a point that I raised earlier (and one that is gaining greater traction in my mind), the difference between colonies for acquired for resource extraction (did I write "abstraction" earlier) and those acquired for settlement.

So my newly arrived at preference: Colonies for extraction and colonies for settlement.

Clearly by any standard the U.S., Canada, Australia and New Zealand are the most successful former British colonies (Hong Kong being notable exceptions) but in each case the central purpose/outcome was resettlement and the replacement of the indigenous population by primarily British citizens. In the case of African, South American, Caribbean, and India, with a few caveats, the primary colonial function was the extraction of natural resources.

In the case of the former, the primary motivation for settlement was to pursue economic gain armed with all the cultural traditions of law, religion, and individual freedom necessary to successfully achieve those ends. In the case of extraction colonies, those cultural institutions while present were not essential to the task at hand so they neither applied nor expected of indigenous populations who in the opinion of the colonizer incapable of understanding them in any significant manner, so when the British left, so did the cultural institutions necessary for western model of economic development.

Now before I get jumped on, clearly this is an oversimplification with a lot of but what about_________ examples, but I think that there is enough to continue the conversation at a later time.
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Old 11-13-2015, 11:36 PM
 
Location: Mableton, GA
165 posts, read 169,796 times
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I think a better question is why has any government, over the course of recorded human history, grew and inflated to the point that it's completely out of control and ruled by psychopaths that enforce their ruling on the lower classes until it completely collapses, nearly decimating various cultures and societies.

Anglo/European governments have had this same incidences as parts of Asian, African, and American (before Columbus "discovered" it) governments. They are responsible for wars, family, and devastation throughout parts of society. European governments just have a bit more sophistication IMO.
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Old 11-13-2015, 11:48 PM
 
10,226 posts, read 7,573,266 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentraiser View Post
To the OP: You might want to read a book called Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond. It's a book that explores why areas in Northern Europe became so much more advanced than areas in Africa and other parts of the world.
I bet that book disregards the parts of history where the ones more advanced were not white.

Northern Europe built on the beginnings of civilization and the advancements by the middle easterners, as well as others.

What often happens is that a geographical area has advantages, and a big enemy gets destroyed. For Northern Europe, the Roman Empire fell, destroyed by outsiders, and northern Europe had natural resources to exploit.

Once oil was discovered in the middle east and elsewhere, those countries then became more advanced than others, because of wealth.
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Old 11-14-2015, 05:29 AM
 
11,337 posts, read 11,032,278 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Well, I don't like to get into "verses" or to argue about who/what "true Israelites" are, ( and no, I don't think that it's the Africans, although Africans DO come from the same tree branch as Jews ( and so Hitler's dislike for both was not just a coincidence so to speak.) But yes, I am talking about the same concept, that certain nations are given the upper hand over the other ones, and that's how they excel in their endeavors - be that governments, wars, colonies, or science and technology. It's what's identified as "God's grace" so to speak.
The measure of a great society is the degree to which it rejects mysticism. Western European countries, and by extension the United States, have unshackled themselves from mystical believe in real terms. There is still lip service, but de facto atheism has freed these countries from the savagery of true belief. Today, in the third world, you still see true mysticism. And that is why the third world remains the third world and will always be the third world until Reason is embraced. Reason, followed by the economic system of reason: Capitalism. And Reason, followed by the virtue of a political system that emphasizes freedom and individualism. We have a vague approximation of that now, and it is still immensely powerful. If it was fully embraced, there is no telling how far we would have advanced by now. The Third World by contrast, remains submerged in the quagmire, and will stay there indefinitely until Reason is embraced. Reality will simply not permit otherwise.
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Old 11-14-2015, 06:03 AM
 
4,345 posts, read 2,790,721 times
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Freedom and peace are not and never were the normal condition of the human race. They are the exceptions in time and in space. War and servitude, the weak commanded by the strong, are the norm. Almost everywhere and almost all the time.

And is some places, everywhere and all the time. Africa has never known anything different. Europe, only a little. The question should be, how can it be made durable where it is? Can peace and freedom be extended to other areas of the world, areas where non-Europeans don't rule?

Evidently, some non-Europeans can have peace and freedom. Singapore, Japan. Some can have one or the other: China.

The Middle East and Africa have not shown that they will ever have peace or freedom. In the absence of their never blooming there, it must be assumed that they never will. The climate, soil, atmosphere are inhospitable.

Pre-Columbian America had peace from time to time is some places. But it also had unending war and savagery of the most brutal kind in others. But much of the Americas now is ruled by European descendants and enjoy the peace and freedom they brought with them.
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Old 11-14-2015, 11:32 AM
 
26,772 posts, read 22,518,410 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
The measure of a great society is the degree to which it rejects mysticism. Western European countries, and by extension the United States, have unshackled themselves from mystical believe in real terms. There is still lip service, but de facto atheism has freed these countries from the savagery of true belief. Today, in the third world, you still see true mysticism. And that is why the third world remains the third world and will always be the third world until Reason is embraced. Reason, followed by the economic system of reason: Capitalism. And Reason, followed by the virtue of a political system that emphasizes freedom and individualism. We have a vague approximation of that now, and it is still immensely powerful. If it was fully embraced, there is no telling how far we would have advanced by now. The Third World by contrast, remains submerged in the quagmire, and will stay there indefinitely until Reason is embraced. Reality will simply not permit otherwise.
Quite honestly, I don't understand in what sense you use the word "mysticism." It looks as you use it interchangeably with the word "religion," but in case of the Western European countries it's not true (since their past, the very foundation of their modern societies is built in Christianity,) and it's even less true for the US with its "bible belt."
As I've already said, Protestant countries became "exempt" from the clutches of Catholicism and Orthodoxy ( that involve a great deal of "mysticism,") and no matter what third world countries would like to embrace, "reason", "capitalism" and what's not - their pitiful situation will not change because of that.
Because it's their bloodlines, the "branch of the tree" they belong to - that's what defines their situation, not their "decisions."

Last edited by erasure; 11-14-2015 at 12:05 PM..
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Old 11-14-2015, 11:37 AM
 
26,772 posts, read 22,518,410 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J2201987 View Post
I think a better question is why has any government, over the course of recorded human history, grew and inflated to the point that it's completely out of control and ruled by psychopaths that enforce their ruling on the lower classes until it completely collapses, nearly decimating various cultures and societies.

Anglo/European governments have had this same incidences as parts of Asian, African, and American (before Columbus "discovered" it) governments. They are responsible for wars, family, and devastation throughout parts of society. European governments just have a bit more sophistication IMO.
I am not sure that "psychopaths" is the right word here ( I mean these people have their own reasoning I'd guess, even though it might not be justifiable in your or my eyes, ) but I would guess that every powerful system has in-built mechanism for self-destruction, and once it starts outliving itself/proving itself imperfect, this mechanism is triggered.
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Old 11-14-2015, 12:38 PM
 
14,400 posts, read 14,283,997 times
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The right to obtain redress for injuries committed by both public and private entities is key to the rule of law. A tort system like we have in the USA is a very powerful thing. Being able to enforce contracts is of great benefit to business. Being able to count on a judiciary that is mostly free from corruption and bribery results in stability and consistent decisions.

I have talked to business people who vastly prefer doing business in the USA because the rules of the game are clear to them and they understand that for the most part, the court system will uphold those rules.

For all the complaining business often does about the legal system, the fact is that they are the key beneficiaries. In a sense, all people benefit because stronger businesses mean more jobs and a better economy.

The rule of law in America and the European countries is the linchpin of the success of our systems.
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Old 11-14-2015, 04:55 PM
 
Location: (six-cent-dix-sept)
6,639 posts, read 4,566,637 times
Reputation: 4730
uganda speaks english and they had civil war/coup d'etat since their independance. they recently celebrated their 50 year anniversary.

sierra leone declared independance from england around the same time and is an impoverished country.

also, brazil has the 7th richest gdp in the world.
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Old 11-14-2015, 05:33 PM
 
9,694 posts, read 7,385,183 times
Reputation: 9931
because they are smart
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