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Old 12-03-2015, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Nashville TN
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Hitler was a coward for committing suicide. Suicide is the ultimate sin and will pay for that sin forever. Hell is real for everyone that commits suicide.
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Old 12-03-2015, 03:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UKWildcat1981 View Post
Hitler was a coward for committing suicide. Suicide is the ultimate sin and will pay for that sin forever. Hell is real for everyone that commits suicide.
I think he would end up in Hell anyway without suicide, don't you?
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Old 12-03-2015, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Nashville TN
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Originally Posted by NickB1967 View Post
I think he would end up in Hell anyway without suicide, don't you?
I do but everyone who commits suicide and homicide or a combination of both like Hitler is burning in Hell forever.
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Old 12-03-2015, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Type 0.7 Kardashev
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Originally Posted by NickB1967 View Post
Nope. Shortly before his suicide, he received the report of Benito Mussolini's fate and decided to kill himself soon after. Eva Braun, after learning of Clara Petacci's fate, probably decided the same.
Hitler spoke and wrote of suicide as the endgame to defeat as far back as the 1920s. He had explicitly known Germany was going to be defeated and occupied for months (and probably, on some level, for years) and had always made it clear that he would never be a prisoner. He also had made it clear that it was victory or death. So, no, he did not decide on suicide in the two days between Mussolini's death and his own. Nor did the nature of Mussolini's fate affect his decision (he knew of Il Duce's execution - whether or not he knew the gruesome details is unknown). The sole determining factor as to the timing of his suicide was the approaching Red Army. On April 30th, the commander of the defense of the Chancellery - Wilhelm Mohnke - informed Hitler that their position would be overrun in no more than one or two days. Hitler then decided upon that afternoon for the timing of his self-administered exit. That is what determined the day of Hitler's death. But as I said, that he would commit suicide before facing total defeat is something he had long asserted he would do. This was obvious even to external observers - as I noted earlier, in 1943 an OSS profile of Hitler had predicted that he would kill himself when defeat was imminent.

Also, Eva Braun decided nothing. She was as subservient as Hitler's German Shepherd Blondi and merely followed Hitler's lead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UKWildcat1981 View Post
Hitler was a coward for committing suicide. Suicide is the ultimate sin and will pay for that sin forever. Hell is real for everyone that commits suicide.
As fascinating as is your belief system that suicide - and not the murder of millions - is the straw that broke the back and sent Hitler to the fire and brimstone, this forum is neither MYTHOLOGY nor RELIGION but HISTORY, so your religious babblings have no place here.
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Old 12-03-2015, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Nashville TN
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Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
Hitler spoke and wrote of suicide as the endgame to defeat as far back as the 1920s. He had explicitly known Germany was going to be defeated and occupied for months (and probably, on some level, for years) and had always made it clear that he would never be a prisoner. He also had made it clear that it was victory or death. So, no, he did not decide on suicide in the two days between Mussolini's death and his own. Nor did the nature of Mussolini's fate affect his decision (he knew of Il Duce's execution - whether or not he knew the gruesome details is unknown). The sole determining factor as to the timing of his suicide was the approaching Red Army. On April 30th, the commander of the defense of the Chancellery - Wilhelm Mohnke - informed Hitler that their position would be overrun in no more than one or two days. Hitler then decided upon that afternoon for the timing of his self-administered exit. That is what determined the day of Hitler's death. But as I said, that he would commit suicide before facing total defeat is something he had long asserted he would do. This was obvious even to external observers - as I noted earlier, in 1943 an OSS profile of Hitler had predicted that he would kill himself when defeat was imminent.

Also, Eva Braun decided nothing. She was as subservient as Hitler's German Shepherd Blondi and merely followed Hitler's lead.



As fascinating as is your belief system that suicide - and not the murder of millions - is the straw that broke the back and sent Hitler to the fire and brimstone, this forum is neither MYTHOLOGY nor RELIGION but HISTORY, so your religious babblings have no place here.
Sorry if the truth hurts.
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Old 12-03-2015, 08:00 PM
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Location: NYC
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Originally Posted by mkwensky View Post
None of these countries are strong enough to stand up to the allies, and all of the powers strong enough to protect him want his head. Should he somehow disappear he would become the most hunted man in 1945, more so than Osama bin Laden who the US started a war to find.
This. What country would be stupid enough to grant him asylum?
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Old 12-04-2015, 01:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
Hitler spoke and wrote of suicide as the endgame to defeat as far back as the 1920s. He had explicitly known Germany was going to be defeated and occupied for months (and probably, on some level, for years) and had always made it clear that he would never be a prisoner. He also had made it clear that it was victory or death. So, no, he did not decide on suicide in the two days between Mussolini's death and his own. Nor did the nature of Mussolini's fate affect his decision (he knew of Il Duce's execution - whether or not he knew the gruesome details is unknown). The sole determining factor as to the timing of his suicide was the approaching Red Army. On April 30th, the commander of the defense of the Chancellery - Wilhelm Mohnke - informed Hitler that their position would be overrun in no more than one or two days. Hitler then decided upon that afternoon for the timing of his self-administered exit. That is what determined the day of Hitler's death. But as I said, that he would commit suicide before facing total defeat is something he had long asserted he would do. This was obvious even to external observers - as I noted earlier, in 1943 an OSS profile of Hitler had predicted that he would kill himself when defeat was imminent.

Also, Eva Braun decided nothing. She was as subservient as Hitler's German Shepherd Blondi and merely followed Hitler's lead.



As fascinating as is your belief system that suicide - and not the murder of millions - is the straw that broke the back and sent Hitler to the fire and brimstone, this forum is neither MYTHOLOGY nor RELIGION but HISTORY, so your religious babblings have no place here.

Again, Hitler was mentally unstable almost from the start of his rise to power. That illness/condition only intensified as the years/war wore on. Calmer and more rational Nazis and other Germans sorted out who to surrender themselves (the British and USA military were first choices) but for AH and his closest/high ranking Nazi officials that would have been too much to bear. No matter who got hold of them it was going to mean being locked up, tried, and surely executed.


Falling upon one's own sword going back to ancient Roman days has always been seen as the "honorable" way out for even the lowest and most vile. Better to off yourself than suffer the indignity of capture and imprisonment along with pain of torture.


That being said Hitler wasn't that stupid. For just the murder of thousands of Jews and others he would swing. For leading Germany on yet another failed attempt at world domination his name would be not associated with the glory he predicted; but something much the opposite.


For someone like Hitler to live and have to come face to face with what he had done/ordered is just too much. Like many other evil men it was all about control with Hitler. By taking his own life he gets to die on his own terms and deprives the world of a show.
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Old 12-05-2015, 12:31 AM
 
Location: Iowa
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That last movie reel of Hitler talking to his staff and giving out awards, tells us a lot concerning the thread topic. Those trembling hands show the shadow of a man that once was, ravaged by Parkinson's disease, he had to know he was going to die soon anyway. He did not have the strength to argue his case before the world court. If he still had his vitality, I imagine he might make an escape attempt from Berlin and hold out as long as possible, until captured by the allies.

If he still had his strength, after giving it more thought, he may have wanted to use the trial as a final platform to use his powerful oratory skills to argue his case against multiculturalism, and promote nazi ideology in one final thrust as a warning to mankind or something of that sort. Perhaps to make an attempt to gain sympathy for the party, or to make a martyr of himself, or to give aid in the defense of other high ranking party members by shouldering the blame, taking some of the heat off of them. He might have wanted to stick around for the trial just for spite, or to have that one last moment under the spotlight because it liked it.

As it was, Hitler exited the stage with a final dramatic act of marrying Eva Braun, then pulling the trigger on himself after giving orders to have his body destroyed, not too shabby given his limited options. I would say he retained some strength and dignity about him, in a small way, to the very end. We still don't know how liberalism and tolerance is going to work out for western civilization in the long run, I see lots of peril with the path we are on, perhaps technology will save us, so we do not have to fall back on nazi ideology for self preservation.
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Old 12-05-2015, 12:38 AM
 
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Originally Posted by UKWildcat1981 View Post
I do but everyone who commits suicide and homicide or a combination of both like Hitler is burning in Hell forever.
It is not up to man to judge where people go when they commit suicide. It is in God hands and its up to God.
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Old 12-05-2015, 02:16 AM
 
Location: Finland
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Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
Wasn't one "Why didn't Hitler escape?" thread enough for you to start?

//www.city-data.com/forum/histo...er-escape.html

Look, Hitler's personality was do-or-die. He spoke many times in his life of killing himself if things went south. Suicide was easy, he claimed on various occasions. He loved Wagner and was fixated with the Götterdämmerung. He was always going to commit suicide before facing defeat.

In 1943 the OSS prepared a report titled A Psychological Analysis of Adolf Hitler. It explicitly predicted that he would refuse any negotiated peace or surrender and would fight to the bitter end, ultimately committing suicide when that end was imminent. And that's exactly what happened.

So, yes, Hitler could have escaped (whether he could have remained unapprehended is by no means certain, however). By since he had zero interest in doing so, what is the point of these questions?
This. Much of Hitler's mentality is explained in the Nero Decree, the scorched earth policy to destroy German infrastructure. If he isn't allowed to survive, the SS isn't allowed either, and the German nation doesn't deserve to survive as a whole. It was always all or nothing to Hitler. Maybe in theory he would've wanted a more glamorous götterdämmerung, a final stand of the SS in the Alps, but Berlin was his nation's capital, and he falls with it. Given Hitler's megalomania, hiding in peasant clothes and attempting an escape to Japan in an U-boat, no, never an option for him.
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