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Old 12-15-2015, 09:24 AM
 
1,917 posts, read 2,203,440 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
You misspelled 'idle conjecture'.

By the way, does that show come on before or after the one about the aliens who periodically visit Earth to do things like build pyramids and kill JFK?

PS - Anyone else cringe as much as I do whenever a historical discussion includes someone citing the History Channel?

It is sad what has become of the once proud History Channel.


The "Hitler escaped and lived on" myth (largely propagated by Soviet propaganda in an attempt to smear the West) is even worse than "Ancient Astronaut Theorists...."


(Take an sip of beer every time you hear *that* A.A.T. phrase on one of those UFO shows and you will be puking drunk within 15 minutes.)
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Old 12-15-2015, 09:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
Hitler spoke and wrote of suicide as the endgame to defeat as far back as the 1920s. He had explicitly known Germany was going to be defeated and occupied for months (and probably, on some level, for years) and had always made it clear that he would never be a prisoner. He also had made it clear that it was victory or death. So, no, he did not decide on suicide in the two days between Mussolini's death and his own. Nor did the nature of Mussolini's fate affect his decision (he knew of Il Duce's execution - whether or not he knew the gruesome details is unknown). The sole determining factor as to the timing of his suicide was the approaching Red Army. On April 30th, the commander of the defense of the Chancellery - Wilhelm Mohnke - informed Hitler that their position would be overrun in no more than one or two days. Hitler then decided upon that afternoon for the timing of his self-administered exit. That is what determined the day of Hitler's death. But as I said, that he would commit suicide before facing total defeat is something he had long asserted he would do. This was obvious even to external observers - as I noted earlier, in 1943 an OSS profile of Hitler had predicted that he would kill himself when defeat was imminent.

Also, Eva Braun decided nothing. She was as subservient as Hitler's German Shepherd Blondi and merely followed Hitler's lead.

I don't dispute any of that; I am sure he would have committed suicide no matter what. He showed no mercy and expected none either.


However, according to Traudl Junge and others in the bunker, immediately after receiving the report of what happened to Mussolini and his mistress, Hitler began making imminent suicide preparations.

Last edited by NickB1967; 12-15-2015 at 09:36 AM..
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Old 12-15-2015, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Florida
4,103 posts, read 4,592,630 times
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Ambassador from whatever Nation on the phone: "Ahem, we hear you have been harboring Hitler"
Nation harboring Hitler "Yes thats true"
"Give him to us now"
"Why"
"Now"
"Or what?"
"Or else all of the worlds superpowers will sail over there and take him"
........."When would you like him delivered?"
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Old 12-15-2015, 04:03 PM
 
18,094 posts, read 15,412,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickB1967 View Post
It is sad what has become of the once proud History Channel.


The "Hitler escaped and lived on" myth (largely propagated by Soviet propaganda in an attempt to smear the West) is even worse than "Ancient Astronaut Theorists...."


(Take an sip of beer every time you hear *that* A.A.T. phrase on one of those UFO shows and you will be puking drunk within 15 minutes.)
Where in the hell do you get that it was Soviet propaganda? The USSR always stated that Hitler killed himself, and they discovered his body.
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Old 12-15-2015, 04:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
Where in the hell do you get that it was Soviet propaganda? The USSR always stated that Hitler killed himself, and they discovered his body.
Not always:


"Different versions of Hitler's fate were presented by the Soviet Union according to its political desires. In the years immediately following 1945, the Soviets maintained Hitler was not dead, but had fled and was being shielded by the former western allies.[SIZE=2][[/SIZE][SIZE=2]52[/SIZE][SIZE=2]][/SIZE] This worked for a time to create doubt among western authorities."

Eberle, Henrik; Uhl, Matthias, eds. (2005). The Hitler Book: The Secret Dossier Prepared for Stalin from the Interrogations of Hitler's
Personal Aides. New York: Public Affairs. ISBN 978-1-58648-366-1.


The Soviet Union finally released its confirmation of Hitler dead in 1970.

Last edited by NickB1967; 12-15-2015 at 04:27 PM..
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Old 12-15-2015, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Carmichael, CA
2,085 posts, read 3,406,926 times
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Spain, for being "neutral" was amazingly pro-Nazi and continued to harbor and help the German U-boats well after the war when they should have already surrendered.


For people that think anything new is automatically a conspiracy theory, go visit the National Archives website. They've already declassified well over 100,000 documents just from the year 1945 and it makes for some fascinating reading.
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Old 12-15-2015, 07:32 PM
 
18,094 posts, read 15,412,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickB1967 View Post
Not always:


"Different versions of Hitler's fate were presented by the Soviet Union according to its political desires. In the years immediately following 1945, the Soviets maintained Hitler was not dead, but had fled and was being shielded by the former western allies.[SIZE=2][[/SIZE][SIZE=2]52[/SIZE][SIZE=2]][/SIZE] This worked for a time to create doubt among western authorities."

Eberle, Henrik; Uhl, Matthias, eds. (2005). The Hitler Book: The Secret Dossier Prepared for Stalin from the Interrogations of Hitler's
Personal Aides. New York: Public Affairs. ISBN 978-1-58648-366-1.


The Soviet Union finally released its confirmation of Hitler dead in 1970.
It was taught in Soviets schools as far back as the 50's about Hitler being killed.

Just because a book for Stalin was published does not mean the USSR was blasting away that it believes Hitler was alive, this was merely a Stalinist thing, an oddity, which hardly describes the USSR's history on the matter. Same for the release of its confirmation, merely a paperwork exercise rather than making some unknown and profound political statement.

Most of my relatives attended school in the USSR, every damn one of them was taught as far back as the 50's that Hitler killed himself. Even in Konev's book, published 1969, he mentioned this though stated in a first person view as a commander during the siege of Berlin.

What some yahoos spit out, or some wayward gov paper says, is hardly the reflection of the actual reality that everyone and their brother was taught and know of Hitler killing himself, those people over their wear that like a badge of honor.
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Old 12-31-2015, 05:58 PM
 
38 posts, read 23,897 times
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Could Hitler have escaped? Yes. He had the money, motive, connections and sympathizers to pull it off.

Did he escape? No.

After the fall of the Soviet Union, and before the rise of Putin, Russian archives were open to scholars. Hitler and Eva Braun's bodies were discovered by the Russians and shipped back to the Soviet Union. Stalin ordered them buried but part of Hitler's skull was kept as a morbid trophy, something that was very common among the Soviet oligarchy.
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