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Old 11-27-2015, 02:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWiseWino View Post
I'm confused because there is documented evidence of domesticated dogs, llamas, guinea pigs, turkeys, muscovy ducks, and stingless bees in pre-Columbian America.

http://soar.wichita.edu/bitstream/ha...pdf?sequence=1
But that isn't much of a list for two continents, and except for dogs includes nothing that was domesticated in North America north of Mexico.
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Old 11-27-2015, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Billings, MT
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I read long ago that one of the reasons for the plague in Europe was the lack of cats to control the rats, which were infested with plague bearing fleas.
The lack of cats was due to the belief that they were "witch's familiars" (especially black ones), and as such were killed whenever noticed.
Of course, the "New World" had no ships to spread rats from port to port.
Has that theory been debunked?
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Old 11-27-2015, 03:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deb100 View Post
But that isn't much of a list for two continents, and except for dogs includes nothing that was domesticated in North America north of Mexico.
As a dog reluctant dog ower... who needs more?
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Old 11-27-2015, 05:43 PM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donar View Post
The American civilizations also didn't exchange the rather few animals they domesticated. The Incas didn't know turkeys and the Aztecs didn't know llamas for example, probably due to geographical barriers. I recommend the book "Guns, Germs and Steel" by Jared Diamond on this topic.
But they did have trade routes, otherwise maize (corn) cultivation wouldn't have expanded so far. It originated in Mexico and spread all the way to South America and New England.
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Old 11-27-2015, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redraven View Post
I read long ago that one of the reasons for the plague in Europe was the lack of cats to control the rats, which were infested with plague bearing fleas.
The lack of cats was due to the belief that they were "witch's familiars" (especially black ones), and as such were killed whenever noticed.
Of course, the "New World" had no ships to spread rats from port to port.
Has that theory been debunked?
But there were rats and mice that were indigenous to the new world as well as other animals that live in modern cities, raccoons, opossums, squirrels, birds, coyotes, rabbits etc. So did pre Columbian cities have vermin. And cities weren't only isolated in Mexico and Peru, but als in Amazonia, American south west, and in Mississippi region where mound builders built cities as large if not larger then those in Europe. Also when spaniards came to tenochitlan, the market place was the biggest one they ever set eyes on. It's hard to imagine that they had no vermin/pests, and with out cats I don't know how they would control that issue, unless they had specialized dog breeds? Either way wouldn't these animals pass on their diseases to the natives. Furthermore you can catch diseases from wild populations, rabies, Lyme disease, Ebola, malaria, etc.
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Old 11-27-2015, 07:24 PM
 
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Read Jared Diamond's book, Guns, Germs, and Steel, for an anthropologist's analysis of why Western European culture became the dominant world culture. Fascinating.
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Old 11-27-2015, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
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Wapiti (elk) were domesticated by the Cheyenne tribe and probably others. They abandoned elk domestication for the horse in the 17th century. Horses could carry more, were easier to ride, and there was more meat on a horse.
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Old 11-28-2015, 12:26 AM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
Wapiti (elk) were domesticated by the Cheyenne tribe and probably others. They abandoned elk domestication for the horse in the 17th century. Horses could carry more, were easier to ride, and there was more meat on a horse.
That's interesting do you have sources, I also heard somewhere that mesoamericans (don't remember the tribe/civilization) had domestic deer (again don't know the exact species) also wapiti (elk) are the second largest deer in the world (moose is the largest) a female cow weighs around 500lbs and 4.3 ft at the shoulder, and a bull weighs about 700lbs and 4.9 ft at the shoulder. Donkeys/horses weigh from 200lbs to 1000lbs and are 3 - 5.3 ft in height at the shoulder. So they are of comparable size and probably quite able to carry a small person. After all people in Yakutia ride reindeer. Females weigh about 200lbs and males a little less than 400lbs and are about 2.8 - 4.9 ft tall at the shoulder. Also for comparison a llama weighs about 200lbs to 400lbs and are 3.9ft at the shoulder. Also the trick with riding on smaller/weaker animals is to sit on top of their shoulder rather than their spine.
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Old 11-28-2015, 12:48 AM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
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Also why didn't incas/South American breed larger llama. Horses are fairly large creatures today, but their wild counter parts are not all that big, definitely not big enough to carry a man topped in armor and run at full speed. The Przewalski's horse is only 4 - 4.6 ft tall at the shoulder and weighs 660lbs. Today draft horses are from 5.3 - 6.6 ft at the shoulder and weigh 1,000 - 2,000lbs
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Old 11-28-2015, 01:28 AM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
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Also something I didn't know, the Russians tried to domesticate moose as a cavalry animal, since it's long legs are better suited for the Russian winter than horses. However the project only took off in the 1930s (for some reasons the tsars of earlier years weren't interested) but the project didn't finish when WWII started in the 40s, and by then people realized the future will be waged with machines, however the project continuous to this day, since it would be a perfect animal to farm in the taiga where there is no grazing land for more traditional animals. Where as moose are browsers https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kostroma_Moose_Farm
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