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Old 12-17-2015, 04:05 AM
 
5,399 posts, read 3,393,841 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightbird47 View Post

What doesn't work for me is 'judging' past generations without any idea what life expected of them. No doubt our descendents will have a lot of unkind things to say about us, about things we fine perfectly all right. Does that mean we lack their wisdom or we were not raised in their world and taught what they were?
Exactly.

There is a song "The Living Years" {sung by Mike & The Mechanics, written by Mike Rutherford and B.A. Robertson}, in which a line says "Every generation/ blames the one before/and all of their frustrations/come beating on your door...." it goes on to say "I know that I'm a prisoner/to all my Father held so dear/I know that I'm a hostage/to all his hopes and fears...." { "I just wish I could have told him in the living years..."}

Every generation does the best it can, and hopes for better for the following generations.

I have no children so I KNOW I won't be placing any of my hopes and fears on them, but that doesn't mean I don't have some impact on the younger generations of today.

There IS, and HAS been, "no easy answer" to the world's frustrations throughout the human race. Life is what WE choose to make it,and how things develop.

I miss the tastes of yesteryear, but not the hard work it took to get them!

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Old 12-17-2015, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Earth
17,444 posts, read 25,201,955 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian Slums View Post
The thing that always bothered me is how abortion was illegal at that time. You could go to jail for it at the very least. Yet that same potential baby, if born, had a high likelihood of death within the first 5 years of life due to illness. And a later high risk of death in childhood due to working. Why did society make women push out babies just to have them die? I guess the answer is obvious if you are a female but it's so disturbingly asss- backwards.

It reminds me of pro-lifers today who want to "save all the babies" yet balk at paying to feed and cloth them and their caretaker(s).

I guess society was somewhat "babycentric" back then yet since the late 1990s (earlier in more afluent towns) we have become a very "child centric society." My theory is that because BC and abortion let's us largely control the number of kids we have, we now put more resources into each one individually.

I'm fascinated by the evolution of labor laws in general, not just re kids. 12+ hours a day 6 days a week was common in the 1900s. No wonder everyone was an alcoholic by today's standards!
Abortion was not illegal throughout the US until the end of the 19th century. At the time of the Civil War it was banned in some states but legal in most. It was banned not out of beliefs that life began at conception - considering how much anti-Catholicism existed in most US states in the 19th century, Catholic doctine would have only made a difference in a minority of states - but because poor standards of sanitation and hygiene meant that women were dying en masse from the complications of abortion.
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Old 12-17-2015, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBoy3 View Post
Child labor is still an issue around the world. They do it because they want to eat.. Kids are still enslaved, read about the shrimp industry in Thailand.

And when false economies like ours based on borrowing with no manufacturing come crashing down our kids will be working the "fields" again...
Resources matter more than manufacturing
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Old 12-18-2015, 12:00 AM
 
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My post wasn't racist. My point was man can justify most anything. People wonder how children can be treated different ways? Well it all depends on the state of man at that time. Today just as yesterday children suffer due to wars and strife.

Many generations from now the same questions will be asked about this generation. How could they treat children like that? Just like the OP ask today. History isn't always clean. Yet history never happened right?
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Old 12-18-2015, 12:45 AM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,545 posts, read 18,668,873 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
The U.S. was just transitioning from a agricultural to an industrial society. The changes moved faster than many people realized and before you knew it... there were problems like child labor. On a farm, child labor is different.

There WERE people concerned - the Progressive reformers of the era spoke quite often against child labor.
Industries like weaving were often built to some extent *for* child labor. The smaller size of a child made it easier for them to work some types of looms. They often lost fingers, and when they were unable to work there were other children. But the above point is very important. On farms, children often worked and the first industries simply followed the same example.

A workers ability to produce came to be a part of it as well. If you sewed for a living, those who did more per day were valued. Those who were too slow were replaced. Those marginal either got better or were gone. It was a human assembly line. Children worked in a lot of industries because their size was useful, but also since they were paid less.

Children have been among the workers throughout its early modern history, from the time it was still small operations. There have been those who speak out in opposition as well, but until the large factory and higher numbers came along, and the work was done in a central area, it didn't show so much. A few children damaged in a small manufacturing business were hard to notice. Many more in a large factory who's injuries are easily documented is a different animal.
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Old 12-21-2015, 04:42 PM
 
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It's a dangerous thing to judge past generations by current standards of morality.
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Old 12-21-2015, 07:39 PM
 
Location: Type 0.7 Kardashev
10,576 posts, read 7,839,966 times
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When norms change, the normal becomes the abnormal.

It is worth remembering that what we do today will increasingly be judged negatively. A couple decades down the road, our norms will be looked at askance. In a century, we'll be hopelessly obsolete. In a few centuries, we of the early 21st century will be barbarians.

What practices of ours will then be beyond the pale remain to be seen, but I'd venture that capital punishment in any form will ultimately be looked at as we look at punishments such as drawing and quartering or worse. I imagine that standards for the treatment of non-human animals will continue to rise and rise. And I suppose that there will be shifts in norms that castigate things we do which I would find positively ridiculous - just as those from many centuries ago would find our practices absurd. Even going back just as far as the Founders, they would likely to a man be appalled at our near-universal suffrage, among other things.

Such is the course of human events.
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Old 12-21-2015, 09:55 PM
 
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All you have to do is watch an episode or two of Mad Men with your 20-year-old daughter. She's horrified by a lot of what is done and said. My 83-year-old mother, on the other hand, watched the show and said it was like a trip down memory lane. And that was only fifty years ago.
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Old 12-21-2015, 10:00 PM
 
2,937 posts, read 1,928,833 times
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Because childhood lasts a lot longer now. Back when life expectancy was age 50, childhood ended earlier, you got married at 14, there was no K-12 education system. Our society for the most part, believes you're a "kid" until 18 and often then most 18 yr olds aren't that mature yet. It's a completely different society and economy these days.
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Old 12-22-2015, 09:23 AM
 
2,634 posts, read 2,529,386 times
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Our present legal system will be viewed as Hunger Games in a few generations. After all we still pass judgments based on social status or race very disparagingly. How could we ever think this was ok?
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