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Old 02-05-2011, 05:39 PM
Location: Tujunga
421 posts, read 408,828 times
Reputation: 143


Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
There is little evidence that Hitler would have ever intended to be a "threat" to the USA, other than an economic one by amalgamating a competitive structure on that side of the globe. If he ever did say he wanted to expand his influence to America, it could very well be in response to something real or imagined that the Amerians might have expressed earlier. The fact of Germany attacking US ships at sea could be seen as the equivalent of America's punitive action against Liberian ships docking in Cuba, which was hardly a declaration of war against Liberia.

But it is not always so easy to dig all the way to the bottom of who expressed "intent" first. A glowing example is the Balfour Declaration that led to the current Mid East powderkeg, and even that can be traced back further to the Hertzl resolution. At what point does an expression or implication of intent, after passing through one multiplier after another, become a fulcrum for justified belligerence?

You are essentially correct in all that you have said, but intent can be a very elusive thing to identify accurately, even in real time.
In terms of state to state politics I would suggest that capability represents a threat in itself regardless of intent. But, as you say, exactly intent is rather tricky to derive. As per the Balfour,Sykes Picot, Mcman husssien corrispondence, as you say
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Old 06-28-2013, 07:27 PM
Location: Saugus, CA
98 posts, read 86,399 times
Reputation: 14
Originally Posted by ReluctantGardenStater View Post
There was really no justifiable or geopolitical reason for the United States to enter into war with Germany. The final outcome (assuming the Axis won) would be a world with two great powers, Germany and the United States, and possibly Japan as well. Italy and most of Europe would be a satellite of Germany. Large parts of Asia would be satellites of Japan. And a severely weakened United Kingdom would be a satellite of the United States. The U.S., as well, would still have a free hand in Central and South America.

This would be in contrast to the actual outcome a world dominated by the Soviet Union and the U.S., with different parts of the world falling in as satellites of those two powers (the Cold War).

After the war, the U.S. probably would have traded with Germany on a friendly but watchful basis. Most Americans, most Europeans, and most Westerners in general sympathized far more with Fascism as an ideology than Communism as an ideology, while not particularly suscribing to either.

Churchill openly praised Mussolini and Hitler before WWII, and David Lloyd George, the former British PM during WWI had friendly relations with Hitler and the German Nazi Party. FDR based large parts of the New Deal on Giovanni Gentile and the Italian Fascists' economic philosophy of Corporatism in Italy anyway.

Germany and Italy didn't even become unified nations until the 1800's. The British, French, Spanish, Portuguese, and Dutch empires dominated the globe long before that. There's a reason why more people around the world speak English, Spanish, and French than German or Italian. The British and French were the masters of colonialism into the Great War era and beyond. Neither side had moral superiority during WWII.

The hypocrisy surrounding WWII is staggering.
Whether or not they would be a major power, they still wouldn't be a client state!
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Old 07-01-2013, 04:49 PM
36,780 posts, read 18,873,670 times
Reputation: 21343
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
Still doesn't...however, Japan did attack U.S. interests. They used a MILITARY attack with the full support of that military's government.
As did Germany with the u-boat campaigns right off the Atlantic Coast- Operation Drumbeat.
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