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Old 01-28-2016, 06:01 AM
 
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In europe, can someone comment on how the church and crown regulated books and who could have them several hundred years ago?

If you go back far enough it used to be illegal for commoners to even have them, right? Particularly interested in England.
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Old 01-28-2016, 09:01 AM
 
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No, it was never illegal to have a book. However, books were prohibitively expensive so virtually no commoner would ever possess them.

When it came to the Bible there were plenty of restrictions, but it was not necessarily on owning the text. For the most part it was a restriction on owning a translation of the text, meaning one written in the common language. There are many theories about why this was, but the general consensus revolves around the churches desire to "control the message". In this capacity the body of the church became the only conduit through which people could reach God. There is a very strong correlation between the rise of Protestantism and its "Priesthood of Everyone" with the increase of literacy and access to books (in particular the Bible in common languages) provided by the printing press. That in turn led to the Enlightenment.
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Old 01-28-2016, 12:43 PM
 
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I believe Martin Luther was the first to translate the Bible into the vernacular. The Catholic clergy thought common people should receive interpretations and explanations of the scriptures only, not have a direct experience with it. You still will not find the Bible in the pews of Catholic churches.

Many thought the novel was scandalous when the first ones appeared in the 18th (?) century. Until then almost all stories were told in verse. Prose was reserved for expository, scientific and philosophical pieces. Before then there wasn't much book banning maybe because there weren't many books.
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Old 01-28-2016, 01:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
There is a very strong correlation between the rise of Protestantism and its "Priesthood of Everyone" with the increase of literacy and access to books (in particular the Bible in common languages) provided by the printing press. That in turn led to the Enlightenment.
The relationship between books and over all literacy had far more to do with the invention of the printing press that it had to do with Protestantism.
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Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
However, books were prohibitively expensive so virtually no commoner would ever possess them.
And likewise, in the days before mass education, virtually no commoner would know how to read them either.
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Originally Posted by Troyfan View Post
You still will not find the Bible in the pews of Catholic churches.
No, you will not. But if you go to a Catholic mass every day for a year, you will hear the vast majority of the Bible being read and be able to follow along in a provided missal. As the passages must be read, a priest cannot edit what passages he wants to emphasize and which ones he wants to de-emphasize by not presenting them. In the end, neither the Catholic nor the Protestant method for presenting the Bible guarantees holiness, or real knoweldge of the Bible for that matter.

Last edited by Cryptic; 01-28-2016 at 02:58 PM..
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Old 01-28-2016, 08:44 PM
 
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The Roman Catholic Church used to maintain a list of books (and later films) that it banned to its followers. It was commonly called the "black list". I forget when it was abandoned... but it wasn't that long ago, maybe the 1980s. There was no real punishment for breaking the ban, and it isn't the same as making ownership of books illegal... it shows how clergy used to wield a lot of influence over such things, however.
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Old 01-28-2016, 08:53 PM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
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Originally Posted by Ottawa2011 View Post
The Roman Catholic Church used to maintain a list of books (and later films) that it banned to its followers. It was commonly called the "black list". I forget when it was abandoned... but it wasn't that long ago, maybe the 1980s. There was no real punishment for breaking the ban, and it isn't the same as making ownership of books illegal... it shows how clergy used to wield a lot of influence over such things, however.
It's been many years since I've heard the term, (and I should add that I'm not Catholic) but the subject referenced above was officially known as the Index of Prohibited Books:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_...m_Prohibitorum
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Old 01-28-2016, 08:54 PM
 
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Google is my friend...

According to Fordham University (a fine Jesuit institution) the list was called Index Librorum Prohibitorum and was enforce from 1559 to 1966 with some editions over its history.

Internet History Sourcebooks
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Old 01-30-2016, 05:50 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Troyfan View Post
I believe Martin Luther was the first to translate the Bible into the vernacular. The Catholic clergy thought common people should receive interpretations and explanations of the scriptures only, not have a direct experience with it. You still will not find the Bible in the pews of Catholic churches.

Many thought the novel was scandalous when the first ones appeared in the 18th (?) century. Until then almost all stories were told in verse. Prose was reserved for expository, scientific and philosophical pieces. Before then there wasn't much book banning maybe because there weren't many books.

Catholic churches have no bibles? What do they have, Spiderman comic books?
Novels appeared as soon as printing became available, 15th and 16th century.
No, after Guttemberg prose was reserved mostly for chivalry novels, pornography and pamphlets.
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Old 01-30-2016, 06:31 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Krokodill View Post
Catholic churches have no bibles? What do they have, Spiderman comic books?
Novels appeared as soon as printing became available, 15th and 16th century.
No, after Guttemberg prose was reserved mostly for chivalry novels, pornography and pamphlets.
That's right. Catholic churches have no Bibles. There is one on the altar but that's it. There are none in the pews.

The liturgical year is not nearly long enough for a priest to go through the whole Bible from beginning to end. Not that there's a whole lot of value in who begat whom, how many cubits high the walls of the room holding the Arc should be or how this or that sacrifice should be offered. But there is still a lot parishioners miss. The Books of Moses especially.
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Old 01-30-2016, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Southeast Michigan
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It was never illegal to have books in Europe, don't know where the OP gets his ideas.

It was illegal at some times in some countries to have some books that were deemed to be heretical or subversive.
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