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Old 02-03-2016, 03:14 PM
 
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Both the Irish peoples ( en masse) and the English, Welsh, Scottish = British) peoples , ( en masse) have been abused since the Romans, early Saxons, Vikings, Normans and now wealthy foreign property landlords, since about 150 AD. That's why we enjoy a laugh, sport and drinking ( alien to our American friends ( especially Irish American fakes) who love botox!
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Old 02-03-2016, 03:15 PM
 
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Only kidding, of course
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Old 02-03-2016, 09:26 PM
 
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Re: 'Of course the maladies of the Irish people were considered by the English can as a result of Irish laziness, lack of intelligence, ambition and sobriety (sound familiar) and not as a result of policies that would stifle the economic development of any people'

Perhaps something written by Connolly, the great Irish patriot, might shed some light on external 'policies' as it affected the Irish nation:

'It is recognized today that it is upon the wise treatment of economic power and resources , and upon the wise ordering of social activities that the future of the nation depends. That nation will be the richest and happiest which has the foresight to marshal the most carefully its natural resources to national ends. But Ireland is denied this power and will be denied it under Home Rule. Ireland's rich natural resources and the kindly genius of its children are not allowed to combine for the satisfaction of Irish wants save in so far as their combination can operate on lines approved by the rulers of England.'
Her postal service, her telegraphs, her wireless, her customs and excise , her coinage, her fighting forces, her relations with other nations, her merchant commerce, her property relations, her national activities, her legislative sovereignity, all things that are essential to a nation's freedom are denied to Ireland now......The peaceful progress of the future requires the possession by Ireland of all the national rights now denied to her'.

And thus it is no wonder that geography had a great part to play in the British-Irish historical relationship and how Ireland was affected by that 'gravitational pull' of its island neighbor. A look at Irish history shows that the country had great difficulty in controlling its internal affairs because of external influences that could hardly be removed from Irish consciousness. It was impossible to shake it off.
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Old 02-04-2016, 09:52 AM
 
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Originally Posted by travric View Post
And thus it is no wonder that geography had a great part to play in the British-Irish historical relationship and how Ireland was affected by that 'gravitational pull' of its island neighbor. A look at Irish history shows that the country had great difficulty in controlling its internal affairs because of external influences that could hardly be removed from Irish consciousness. It was impossible to shake it off.
It is curious to note that the national oppression of Ireland by British colonial policy is acceptable when it comes to explaining Irish poverty and national disfunction but not so much when it comes to Britain's more southernly former colonial holdings.

This being Black History Month and such.
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Old 02-04-2016, 10:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Mouldy Old Schmo View Post
Some may say it was because Britain stole Ireland's wealth. But where was its wealth? No mineral resources I know of. It was primarily agrarian.

Despite the dislike many Irish felt to Britain, many of them migrated to the UK until quite recently. Interesting that.
If all the wealth is in one country...that's the country you go to regardless of your feelings about it.

Prior to the EU, most immigrants in the UK were from the Commonwealth. Most didn't like the British (with good reason) and yet they went because that was where the opportunity was. Same for France.
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Old 02-04-2016, 10:18 AM
 
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How much of Ireland's forests were removed for the British Navy? Often called the King's or Queen's Wood.
I've often heard that many of Ireland's green fields were once great forests.
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Old 02-05-2016, 07:07 AM
 
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English expelled Irish to the bog were they only could grow potatoes, they were treated far worse than Africans in South Africa. No access to good jobs excerpt cannon fodder and constabularies, no access to education. They were treated like animals.
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Old 02-05-2016, 10:11 AM
 
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Originally Posted by TheWiseWino View Post
Something like that...



Sort of…

From my readings the source of Ireland's Troubles began with the passage of the Penal Laws in the mid-to late 17th century, laws the prohibited Catholics from traveling abroad for study, the teaching or running schools in Ireland, purchasing land or inheriting it from Protestants. It also required that inherited lands be equally divided amongst the Catholic heirs which over time diluted Catholic land ownership in direct relation to their legacies. By 1778 Ireland's population was 80% Catholic but 90% of the land was in the ownership of Protestants.

By 1835 Irish poverty was so extensive it lead French sociologist, Gustave de Beaumont to comment that,
"I have seen the Indian in his forests, and the Negro in his chains, and thought, as I contemplated their pitiable condition, that I saw the very extreme of human wretchedness; but I did not then know the condition of unfortunate Ireland...In all countries, more or less, paupers may be discovered; but an entire nation of paupers is what was never seen until it was shown in Ireland."
Even with the development of a emerging linen and woolen industry Britain was able to out compete these Irish industries due to bans on Irish exports of wool and textiles, at least until the industry was totally in the hands of Protestants largely located in Ulster.

Of course the maladies of the Irish people were considered by the English can as a result of Irish laziness, lack of intelligence, ambition and sobriety (sound familiar) and not as a result of policies that would stifle the economic development of any people.
I think this worked against the Protestants too. That was at least part of the reason why around 250,000 of them set sail for America in the 1700s.
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Old 02-10-2016, 08:24 PM
 
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In the crisis between Britain and Ireland, Henry Grattan, a revolutionary in the late 18th , alluded to the idea that Ireland had to ' deny the claim of the British Parliament to make law for Ireland'. That fact according to him directed the governance of the Irish nation from afar.... but not to Irish benefit. It was government from another country. And as Tone noted, ' it is a government derived from another country , whose interest , so far from being the same with that of the people, directly crosses it at right angles'. And thus the dreadful feuds arguably going on for over two centuries.
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Old 02-11-2016, 01:47 PM
 
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In the 1800s around 100,000 Protestants left for America and Canada.This followed the other great exodus in the 1700s. The movement in the 1800s was partly due to the high rents charged by the landlords. However, the Irish Catholics could afford the rents so it wasn't until the famine that they moved in large numbers to America.

Also point out that the Protestants in Ulster suffered too by sanctions placed on them by London.
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