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Old 02-11-2016, 03:13 PM
 
Location: Somewhere flat in Mississippi
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America's first president of Irish ancestry was not John F. Kennedy but Andrew Jackson.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Jackson
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Old 02-11-2016, 03:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mouldy Old Schmo View Post
America's first president of Irish ancestry was not John F. Kennedy but Andrew Jackson.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Jackson
We would say he was Ulster-Scots. His people came from Boneybefore near Carrickfergus. His brothers were born there and Andrew was born about 18 months after arriving in America. Think it is around 15 Presidents who were from Ulster.
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Old 02-11-2016, 05:29 PM
 
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Some governments know how to create wealth......some governments are good at taking wealth away. It's a simple rule of tax a lot or tax a little.
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Old 02-12-2016, 09:31 AM
 
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^^^^
You know it would appear that the allusion above reflects a bit on the fact that what happened in Ireland also happened with the American colonies of Britain when it came to taxation. Both offered very good 'building of wealth' prospects. The problem though was when it all got into 'law'. 'Legalities' can produce hell.
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Old 02-12-2016, 12:53 PM
 
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Ferguson in his History of the British Empire says the there was no need for the Revolution and that is was engineered by those with a vested interest...smugglers etc.

I think he also said that the taxation on tea was equal to what it was in England. Not to sure about that. Will have to look it up.
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Old 02-12-2016, 02:00 PM
 
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Niall Ferguson

The Boston Tea Party

In fact the price of the tea in question was exceptionally low, since the British government had just given the East India Company a rebate of the much higher duty the tea had incurred entering Britain. In effect, the tea had left Britain duty free and had to pay only the much lower American duty on arriving in Boston. Tea had never been cheaper in New England. The 'Party' was organized not by irate consumers but by Boston's wealthy smugglers. who stood to lose out.

On close inspection, then, the taxes that caused so much fuss were not just trifling; by 1773 they had all but gone. In any case, these disputes about taxation were trivial compared with the basic economic reality that membership of the British Empire was good- very good - for the American colonial economy.
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Old 02-13-2016, 08:43 AM
 
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Interesting points on the tea party and taxation.

What was sure was that the Amerucan radicals jumped on these and ran them as far as they could go ramping up and stoking fire and damnation on the British Parliament and its governance and legislation towards the colonies. Many were swept along until rational explanations of 'economic good' just couldn't deal with the outpouring of emotionality of knowing that a country far far away was dictating policies getting on the nerves of various populations. And that looks like the American mind set ( leave us alone) had its beginnings In the French and Indian War. (maybe this is another thread?)
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Old 02-13-2016, 11:08 AM
 
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Originally Posted by travric View Post
Interesting points on the tea party and taxation.

What was sure was that the Amerucan radicals jumped on these and ran them as far as they could go ramping up and stoking fire and damnation on the British Parliament and its governance and legislation towards the colonies. Many were swept along until rational explanations of 'economic good' just couldn't deal with the outpouring of emotionality of knowing that a country far far away was dictating policies getting on the nerves of various populations. And that looks like the American mind set ( leave us alone) had its beginnings In the French and Indian War. (maybe this is another thread?)
I think you've summed it up. Once it took off, it took on a life of its own and the original reason was forgot about in the turmoil of war. Sides had to be taken. That's the way of things and well those who stir it up know this.
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Old 02-16-2016, 11:47 AM
 
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Re: 'Sides had to be taken'

Righto. Revolutions are tough. They suck everybody and everything into the maelstrom..... whether they like it or not.
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Old 02-17-2016, 07:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by travric View Post
Re: 'Sides had to be taken'

Righto. Revolutions are tough. They suck everybody and everything into the maelstrom..... whether they like it or not.
True. Its ironic that a tax on tea was given as a reason for rebellion and then when the new men took over they imposed a tax on whisky. Those who fought in the rebellion now came into conflict with their new 'masters'

On the question of Ireland it seems the rise in population may have had something to do with it.


But finally what brought the frontiersmen to rebellion was something more mundane and far closer to their hearts, Secretary Hamilton, in an effort to raise money to run the new federal structures, imposed a tax on whisky. As practically every settler west of the mountains had his own private still, it was obvious that such an outrageous proposal had to be resisted. From run-of-mill attacks on tax collectors, the Whisky Rebellion gathered momentum until in 1794, it became a full-scale challenge to the authority of the Federal Government. Their argument seemed unanswerable: ' Why should we be made subject to tax for drinking our grain instead of eating it ?' Five thousand angry moonshiners, nearly all Scotch-Irish (Ulster-Scots), took over Pittsburgh and the Government was forced to act. An army, in which many former Scots-Irish Revolutionaries served, was sent to western Pennsylvania and the Rebellion collapsed. Most rebels surrendered and were pardoned but some stubborn Ulstermen trekked over the mountains to Kentucky, where beyond the reach of the tax men, they could distill in peace.

IRELAND BEFORE THE FAMINE

However, the factor which gave the greatest cause for concern was the rapid rise in population from the mid-century. From about 2.5 million in 1767 the population of Ireland had risen to over 4 million by 1781, and twenty years later it was close on 5 million.

In the middle of September 1845 the maturing potato crop began to rot over much of Ireland. ' We had a field of potatoes that year in the back lane,' James Brown of Donaghmore, Co Tyrone, recalled. ' and in one night they were struck with the blight and both tops and roots were blackened. Much of Ulster escaped losses. Nevertheless, the medical officer for Coleraine workhouse reported. ' Nothing else is heard of, nothing else is spoken of...Famine must be looked forward to...' The potato crop had failed before in Co Donegal in 1830 and 1831, over all of Ulster in 1835; and there had been widespread losses in 1836 and 1837. But this was a new disease, Phytophthora infestans, a microscopic fungus for which there was then no remedy and which struck again with virulent force in the summer of 1846.

' I remember driving to Bundoran though Co Fermanagh with my sister Bella on August 3rd,' Brown wrote, ' and as we went seeing the fine crops of potatoes in the fields. We spent three days in Bundoran and, returning found these same crops blackened and useless.
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