U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
 
Old 02-17-2016, 08:21 AM
 
13,510 posts, read 15,233,220 times
Reputation: 37885

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulsterman View Post
We would say he was Ulster-Scots. His people came from Boneybefore near Carrickfergus. His brothers were born there and Andrew was born about 18 months after arriving in America. Think it is around 15 Presidents who were from Ulster.
I don't know if it is 15, but it is quite a few. I have repeatedly come across references to the Scots-Irish ancestry of various presidents.

I don't really have a dog in the "fight," if there is a fight. But my impression is that the history of the 13 southern colonies and the early republic of the United States is woefully thin on the role of the Scots-Irish. They were certainly quite disenchanted with what happened to them after participating in the various plantation schemes in Ireland, and that made them very supportive of republicanism and separatism.
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-17-2016, 08:54 AM
 
13,510 posts, read 15,233,220 times
Reputation: 37885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulsterman View Post
In the 1800s around 100,000 Protestants left for America and Canada.This followed the other great exodus in the 1700s. The movement in the 1800s was partly due to the high rents charged by the landlords. However, the Irish Catholics could afford the rents so it wasn't until the famine that they moved in large numbers to America.
A primary factor was that the southern thirteen colonies were very anti-Catholic. Even the colony of Maryland, founded by the Baltimores as a colonial refuge for English Catholics, is largely a product of American public school BS. The colony had an act of toleration, under which its proprietors could allow public R.C. worship. However, Protestant settlers were very offended by this, and within sixty years the act was revoked and the Church of England became the only permitted sect. So much for the legend of a R.C. colony.

The Quebec Act of 1774 was designed to assist the integration of the former French colony into a political union with English-speaking Canada. One of its most prominent aspects was that it made the R.C. church equal to the English state church. The colonists in the 13 southern colonies were enraged by this, and conjured up visions of hordes of Papists invading them from the north, etc. etc. And even our red-blooded, democratic patriot Paul Revere created anti-Catholic cartoons in reaction to the Act.

Those R.C.'s who left Ireland were not going to go to the New World, they headed to Europe and the commoners among them found work as soldiers in the armies of various continental countries.

Quote:
Also point out that the Protestants in Ulster suffered too by sanctions placed on them by London.
Indeed, they were soon disabused of the idea that they were going enjoy a great deal of privilege in Ireland, they were, after all, though Protestant, not the right kind of Protestants. And it was not long before they learned that while they might enjoy more liberties than the Catholics, they were far from being able to enjoy the liberties that a member of the established church could.

And though the English establishment was very desirous of replacing Irish Catholic peasants and tenants, it was not bargain day on the rent for Presbyterians. My mother's father's family - originally from Tievenny near Strabane - preserved one small shred of original written memory from the family's migration in the mid-1800's. It is a terse summary, but it begins with the statement that they left to "to free themselves from the domineerance of their landlord."
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-17-2016, 09:12 AM
 
13,510 posts, read 15,233,220 times
Reputation: 37885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouldy Old Schmo View Post
Some may say it was because Britain stole Ireland's wealth. But where was its wealth? No mineral resources I know of. It was primarily agrarian.

Despite the dislike many Irish felt to Britain, many of them migrated to the UK until quite recently. Interesting that.
I think you have to ask "who" in Ireland was poor, and "when" was Ireland or some segment of the population poor.

There are many contradictions in Irish history regarding the economy of the country. Probably the most bizarre one seen from a contemporary point of view is the fact that during the Great Famine - with millions emigrating and dying - Ireland was an exporter of agricultural produce. Just in this one brief era, some lived in poverty while others lived well and prospered during the event. So, was Ireland "poor" during the Great Famine?

Two repeated problems with administration from London were that Irish trade became shackled with rules from England and was managed as part of English trade; a second in later times was that industries that sprang up in Ireland - or were even encouraged by the London government, were suddenly squelched if the same industry in England objected to the competition.

Poor Ireland, I think, was largely the result of badly managed Ireland.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-17-2016, 10:19 AM
 
1,820 posts, read 817,226 times
Reputation: 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevxu View Post
I don't know if it is 15, but it is quite a few. I have repeatedly come across references to the Scots-Irish ancestry of various presidents.

I don't really have a dog in the "fight," if there is a fight. But my impression is that the history of the 13 southern colonies and the early republic of the United States is woefully thin on the role of the Scots-Irish. They were certainly quite disenchanted with what happened to them after participating in the various plantation schemes in Ireland, and that made them very supportive of republicanism and separatism.
Aye, the Test Act in Queen Anne's reign went against them. Presbyterian marriage, baptism and even burial was nor recognized. They were kept down and so headed off to the new world. Over 200,000 made the journey and played a big part in the making of America.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-17-2016, 12:43 PM
 
1,820 posts, read 817,226 times
Reputation: 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouldy Old Schmo View Post
America's first president of Irish ancestry was not John F. Kennedy but Andrew Jackson.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Jackson




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ab0stjCK81Q
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-17-2016, 02:09 PM
 
1,820 posts, read 817,226 times
Reputation: 799
There were a lot of American soldiers stationed in Ulster during WW2. Richard Hayward speaks to one of them. There is a book in the window 'Ulster Sails West' it tells of the immigration from Ulster to America in the 1700s.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcK3j9zUO6M
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-18-2016, 08:37 AM
 
1,820 posts, read 817,226 times
Reputation: 799
Ireland missing out on the Roman influence, then the Reformation and the Industrial Revolution might have played a part. They were left behind.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-18-2016, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Glasgow Scotland
15,570 posts, read 13,724,239 times
Reputation: 22932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulsterman View Post
wasnt Kennedy the first Irish Catholic though..
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-19-2016, 03:03 PM
 
1,820 posts, read 817,226 times
Reputation: 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzybint View Post
wasnt Kennedy the first Irish Catholic though..
Yes that's true though I think Regan a Protestant came from an Irish Catholic background. Clinton on his visit said he was Scotch-Irish and mentioned a Cassidy in Co Fermanagh who he said he was related to. Altogether its reckoned that 15 were of Ulster-Scots stock.

Andrew Jackson was the first Ulster-Scot president. Buchanan, Johnston, Arthur, Grant (who visited his ancestral home in Londonderry County) Wilson etc were others.

The Confederate general Jackson and Stuart were of Ulster stock as was Grant and Burnside on the Federal side. Davy Crockett's people took part in the defence of Londonderry. Edgar Allen Poe and Stephen Foster were others of Ulster descent. There are many many more.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-19-2016, 03:19 PM
 
1,820 posts, read 817,226 times
Reputation: 799
Some pics. The man who designed the seal for America was from Ulster as was the man who printed it. Think there were 5 signatures from Ulster born or descent.




Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2020, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top