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I've noticed that when speaking about WWII on these forums, the Winter War comes up regularly. While we all know that a small army stopped a much larger one, most people don't know the reasons why it happened. The war has been studied to death here, but the reasons are still inconclusive and a satisfactory conclution might never be assebmled. Anyway, here's my take on the incident in no particular order, mostly focusing on the environment outside the battles.
1) Motivation
The Finns fought for their homeland, the Soviets because they were ordered. This is a given, you don't need to be a genius to realise that. The 44th Ukrainian Infantry Division destroyed at the Battle of the Raate Road was a battle-hardened division from the Polish Campaign, but comprised of Ukrainian nationalist elements and had no incentive of fighting Finland.
1a) Underestimating the will of fight
While Stalin himself didn't believe it, many high officers of the Soviet Army believed that after the devastating Civil War in Finland socialist-minded elements would rise up against the legal government. That didn't happen, on the contrary it united the Finnish people once for all. Neither did the hope that Finland would simply submit come into fruitition.
1b) Russophobia
The era of Russophobia had started in the 18th century, being reinforced by the russification policies of the Grand Duchy of Finland, and further reinforced during the Civil War - finally reaching its peak during the 1930's when the mentality in Finland was very anti-communist. Many Finns had a sincere hatred towards Russia, while the average Russian had no qualm against a Finn.
2) Supply
This is an aspect that is usually overlooked in warfare, but had a pivotal role in the Winter War. The Finns had superior civilian clothing underneath their uniforms, something that wasn't regularly allowed in the Soviet Army, or if you had it was of poor quality. The winter of 1939-40 is the second-coldest in Finnish recorded history, so during that winter it made all the difference.
2a) Snowsuits
All Finnish soldiers were issued waterproof snowsuits, something that the Russians didn't understand until later in the war. And their weren't waterproof. The Finns had a tremendous camouflaging advantage, also keeping the troops dry unless the snowsuit was broken, which was often the case. The Soviets DID HAVE proper winter equipment, but due to inefficient bureaucracy they arrived only late in the war.
2b) Shelter
As the Finns held a defensive posture, and the USSR thought to overrun Finland in a couple of weeks, we dug underground reinforced bunkers while the Soviets used mainly tents as their bivouac. And as the temps were regularly below 0F, even -22F, having a good shelter is essential to survive. As important is having some kind of heating source. The Finnish forces were and are issued with stoves for heating, but many Russian divisions didn't have these at all. They had to create large bonfires during the night and gather their tents around it.
2c) Food and drink
The Finns knew that working in a very cold environment requires a high-calory diet. Finnish soldiers got heavy meals consisting of meat soups and stews, sausages, porridge................. and coffee. The Russians completely ignored this and field kitchens were unable to feed the troops properly. Often a Russian soldier had to rely on frozen bread and tea. In 1939 coffee wasn't rationed, so the Finns had always access to caffeine, and later to amphetamine-based "stimulants". The stimulants Russians were given was vodka to enhance their aggresivity. Meanwhile in the Finnish Army alcohol was strictly forbidden except for special purposes. While alcohol might create more bloodlust, it also clouds your judgement. More than often a sober Finnish rifleman would encounter a drunk starving Soviet.
2d) Supply when overstreched
During the whole course of the war the Soviets were terribly undersupplied. Sure, the Russian artillery got their shells, but what after that? The 163rd and 44th (Ukrainian) divisions at the Raate road were totally dependent on supplies of one single dirt road easily blocked by Finnish troops. Suddenly a force of 40k soldiers enters a tiny outback commune of 3300 people and has no way to feed or supply the poor bastards.
On the Karelian Isthmus the situation was adequate, but north of that the Russians just looked at road maps and drove themselves into pockets where the only possibility was aerial supply. The Finns mimicked the Russians' signals and as often as not the Russian planes dropped their supplies to us.
3) Leadership
This is maybe the most obvious one. The Finnish generals were highly qualified experts, veterans from the First World War, most had studied in Britain, France or Germany, and were academics. I dare to say that the Finnish higher officer cadre was one of the most professional in the world at that time. In the USSR after the purges this was the opposite. You all know that, so no need to get into it further.
3a) Idividual leadership
As a small country with a small population, in a tradition of never enforcing serfdom, personal initiative is highly encouraged. It is today, and it was then. Finland is a thoroughly DIY society. Russian commanders were under the strict rigid orders of the Stavka and NKVD, while Finnish officers and even NCO's could use their own creativity to a maximum effect. I dare to say that a Finnish Sergeant had more leeway than a Soviet Captain. If that hill was worth taking, the Sergeant would ask the Lieutenant that it's worth it, and we should take it. The Russian officers had to follow every rule of the Stavka, immobilising any movement until you got the go-ahead order.
3b) The mechanised wave doctrine
While it might work well in the steppes of Russia and Ukraine, the doctrine itself sounds so incredibly stupid to implement in Central and Northern Finland. While on the Karelian Isthmus it might work, in Northern Finland you are confined to one dirt road creating a huge traffic jam. The Finns took the maximum advantage of this by destroying the first and last tanks in the column, and then containing the rest of the "pocket" by using 1/10 of the force of the Russians. Ultimately the Soviets would simply starve to death.
3c) Mobility means wheeled transport
No, it doesn't. The Soviets thought so, we didn't. Mobility might skis, bikes and overall traditional Finnish 'sissi' guerrilla tactics. The use of unorthodox tactics astonished the Russians completely, rigid in their indoctrination they had no knowledge of how to deal with a highly mobile opponent which isn't even motorised. This is maybe the biggest factor in the whole war, as the Soviets simply didn't have any knowledge of how to deal with mobile ski-troops.
4) Intelligence
Througout WWII the Soviets undermined it and had a very low knowledge of encrypted intelligence. In this field in 1939 Finland was a superpower compared to Russia. We were able to get info of almost every troop movements, all their plans and future decisions. Additionally, we got cables from Estonia everytime something happened.
4a) We knew the terrain
In 1939 we had mapped every bog, every swamp, every hill and every road. These were not available for the Soviets. Sure they had spies and aerial photographs, but before the age of satellites they had no clear picture of strategic natural barriers. They just went forward as they thought. The use of the terrain was abysmal in the Winter War, and the Russians took no lessons from it. The Finns again used it to achieve a maximum advantage.
What do you think? Aren't these points kind of obvious, but great powers tend to underestimate all these factors?
Great thread. I am a student of the Winter War and anything on it always interests. There is something to be said for a 'David' to stand up to 'Goliath'. Technically , the Russians came away with a victory but in the end I believe in the Finnish cartoon I saw of the time showing a Finnish soldier trudging away from battle and war saying to himself, 'I still say we won, dammit'.
All in all the Russian victory was more like a pyrrhic one after the terrible devastation to Russia's military and the tremendous number of lives lost. Perhaps up a million or so? And a concern by Uncle Joe's top brass that the Russian army was incompetent and prone to setting themselves up for destruction.
As far as the War, I'd say the Finns with their resolute and heroic defense of their country ironically with their 'loss' helped the Allies to win the war. It was they who showed wuth their fight the shortcomings of the Soviet army particularly in leadership and tactics. And that could not be what Uncle Joe needed as he got ready to fight the Fuhrer.
Great thread. I am a student of the Winter War and anything on it always interests. There is something to be said for a 'David' to stand up to 'Goliath'. Technically , the Russians came away with a victory but in the end I believe in the Finnish cartoon I saw of the time showing a Finnish soldier trudging away from battle and war saying to himself, 'I still say we won, dammit'.
All in all the Russian victory was more like a pyrrhic one after the terrible devastation to Russia's military and the tremendous number of lives lost. Perhaps up a million or so? And a concern by Uncle Joe's top brass that the Russian army was incompetent and prone to setting themselves up for destruction.
As far as the War, I'd say the Finns with their resolute and heroic defense of their country ironically with their 'loss' helped the Allies to win the war. It was they who showed wuth their fight the shortcomings of the Soviet army particularly in leadership and tactics. And that could not be what Uncle Joe needed as he got ready to fight the Fuhrer.
We Finns use to say "we lost the war, but we won our independence". It's quite certain that we'd suffer the same fate as the Baltic States unless we've fought.
The Russians maybe got a pyrrhic victory, but they indeed learned their lesson. Though Russian winters are as harsh than Southern/Central Finnish are, they took no regard to them. In Helsinki an average January high is 28F (much like upstate NY), but that extremely cold winter it made all the difference. One side was prepared with thick clothes, proper food and warm accomodiation, the other side with autumn clothes (when the war started temps were well above freezing), tents and scarce food. In 1941 the Russians had learned their lesson, also in tactics.
As a Sergeant in the reserve now in supply, I can't stress enough how essential the welfare of the soldiers are. A well-fed caffeine-induced soldier feeling warm is a good one - a drunk hungry cold one is not. Sleep is secondary, but you have to be well-fed to keep you happy. And someone to care for you. The Russians thought that this is just a waste or time, the Finns took every measure to keep the soldiers content.
4) Intelligence
Througout WWII the Soviets undermined it and had a very low knowledge of encrypted intelligence. In this field in 1939 Finland was a superpower compared to Russia. We were able to get info of almost every troop movements, all their plans and future decisions. Additionally, we got cables from Estonia everytime something happened.
Quoting myself, Finland was openly handed intelligence fron Swedish, Norwegian and Danish sources throughout the war. The Swedes were particularly good at decrypting those poorly encrypted Soviet messages. This information was a huge asset for the Finnish High Command. For example the Danish Navy could pinpoint exactly where the Soviet Navy was, though it had no effect on the war as the Baltic Sea was largely frozen due to the very cold winter.
Re: 'As a Sergeant in the reserve now in supply, I can't stress enough how essential the welfare of the soldiers are. A well-fed caffeine-induced soldier feeling warm is a good one - a drunk hungry cold one is not. Sleep is secondary, but you have to be well-fed to keep you happy. And someone to care for you. The Russians thought that this is just a waste or time, the Finns took every measure to keep the soldiers content'
And you know I would think that not only does it make the soldier 'content' under the circumstances but it strengthens them psychologically for the trials that they faced out there in the cold, snow and ice and meeting up with people determined to destroy you. I do think the Finnish soldier under the circumstances was stronger psychologically than the Russian who I think were just not led very well.
And you and others no doubt are familiar with 'Talvisota' the Finnish produced film on the Winter War. If the film is true to life, I thought it suicidal for those Russians to be frontally attacking prepared Finnish positions under the circumstances. They were simply going down like flies. Not sure if they were forced to attack , drunk or crazed but it was a terrible sight. What a waste of lives. The experiences of that on both sides had to be hellish.
And you know I would think that not only does it make the soldier 'content' under the circumstances but it strengthens them psychologically for the trials that they faced out there in the cold, snow and ice and meeting up with people determined to destroy you. I do think the Finnish soldier under the circumstances was stronger psychologically than the Russian who I think were just not led very well.
And you and others no doubt are familiar with 'Talvisota' the Finnish produced film on the Winter War. If the film is true to life, I thought it suicidal for those Russians to be frontally attacking prepared Finnish positions under the circumstances. They were simply going down like flies. Not sure if they were forced to attack , drunk or crazed but it was a terrible sight. What a waste of lives. The experiences of that on both sides had to be hellish.
I believe that too. Some years ago I was at an army rehearsal and noticed the troops had nothing to wash their hands with. So I marched to the field hospital to ask for one disinfectant bottle for every platoon. When I gave them to every Platoon Sergeant coming for food (not the platoon officers, because officers are bastards and idiots), it felt like being Santa, the Platoon Sergeants and Corporals were overjoyed. The not-POG's in the Winter War surely felt the same. I'm not sure the Russians had "men in the rear" who really cared about them. Most likely not.
One factor of course was that right-wing Finns were largely organised in the Finnish militia. They knew the military lifestyle and its requirements, and were staunchly anti-bolshevik. I would say that the militia was the 1930's Tea Party of Finland. Nevermild their political affiliations, the militia was a huge benefit to the Finnish Army.
But the anti-Soviet sentiment reached in all age groups. My grandfather who recently passed away enlisted in 1943 as soon he turned 17. On the train to the enlistment centre his only thought was "what if I'm not good enough". He was, and luckily for him he was assigned to the coastal artillery and survived the war. My maternal grandfather was a 2nd lieutenant and a 1st lieutenant in both the Winter War and the Continuation War. But he was so scarred by those events that he never talked about them. I asked him many times, but he would't speak. The rest of my family was pretty much wiped out during WWII.
There is also evidence that Finnish machine gunners had do be exchanged temporarily because they couldn't deal with how many they killed. The Russians just kept on coming. The gunners were in such a shock that somebody else had to step in. But indeed, the Russians kept the human-mechanised wave throughout the war.
Did Hitler ever pay license fees to Finland for copying the Swastika? - Btw Kudos to Finland for also resisting Nazi evils like the Holocaust etc. Did you watch this one Finnish movie on the continuation war where they drive German Sturmgeschuetze (assault guns) - I think StuG IIIs?
But indeed, the Russians kept the human-mechanised wave throughout the war.
That is over simplified. Though the Soviets did rely heavily on numbers, their tactics got increasingly sopisticated as the war went on. The Soviet mechanized advance from the Kursk area to the Romanian border would have won the approval of any German Panzer strategist. The same with the their final mechanized advance across Manchuria.
Likewise, Finnish veterans can probably attest that the Soviet Army in say June 1944 (Karelia area), though still reliant on numbers, was a very different army than the one that attacked Finland in the Winter War.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete
What do you think? Aren't these points kind of obvious, but great powers tend to underestimate all these factors?
It depends on the Great Power in question and the time. The British Army of 1914 had many of the characteristics that you noted above and fielded a small, professional and very lethal army. Likewise, the German army of WWII shared many of those traits and on a unit by unit average, constantly out performed both the western allies and the Soviet Union through out the WWII. Israel and Austraiia are good examples of smaller countries with similar systems to what Finland had in the Winter War.
Of the countries above, WWII Germany and Israel come closest to Finland as they were also able to apply those methods to armies of conscripts. The British Expeitionary Force and the ANZAC Corps, though very good, were comprised of all volunteers.
Re: 'But the anti-Soviet sentiment reached in all age groups. My grandfather who recently passed away enlisted in 1943 as soon he turned 17. On the train to the enlistment centre his only thought was "what if I'm not good enough'
Interesting. I read where Mannerheim noted that from his viewpoint the odds were against Finland when it came to defeating Stalin's armies. Really the one thing he was hoping for was 'the most honorable annihilation with the faint hope that the conscience of mankind would find an alternative solution as a reward for bravery and singleness of purpose'. I'm pretty sure he did not share this with the fighting men.
And with that he too no doubt had questions as to how much the army could hold out under the circumstances to come. Subsequent events did show his army fought spectacularly. Incredible how strong they were mentally. And I'm sure it was because they knew what they were fighting for and why.
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