Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Why didnt ships during the Age of Sail also come with paddles like on a Tririme, or a viking longship?
Those ships can sail with wind, and if they lost the wind they can still keep going. I am watching this movie about a lost ship, with no wind, and the crew is starving to death. This is during the colonial era when ships needed wind power. They lost the wind, and they get stranding. It does not seem like a good design.
Also who did have the superior ships, the romans and greeks with their Triremes, the viking longship, or the spanish galleons?
Many reasons. First, the oars and the platforms takes a lot of space, which the ships didn't have. Secondly, the ships got increasingly heavy. Francis Drake's Revenge was a small galleon, but still weighed 4 times more than your overall rowing galley, which were very light and had a low draught. Even if you would have oars, you wouldn't hardly get anywhere, as there's simply not enough men to oar. And finally, even if you could get somewhere at a couple of knots, navigation in open seas is impossible at that speed. You cannot stay on course.
Another thing to realize. In the open oceans such as the Atlantic or Pacific, wave heights are typically much higher than the relatively placid waters of the Mediterranean. The freeboard had to be, by necessity, much lower to the water than a sailing vessel, which meant that a galley was much more prone to getting swamped in rough seas.
Also, galleys had to be lighter in order to be driven by oar power, which meant that provisioning for larger crews and cargo would be serious challenges on much longer ocean voyages. In the Mediterranean, ships had much shorter distances to cover, whereas crossing the Atlantic meant voyages of at least 3000 miles. They would have run out of food.
Many reasons. First, the oars and the platforms takes a lot of space, which the ships didn't have. Secondly, the ships got increasingly heavy. Francis Drake's Revenge was a small galleon, but still weighed 4 times more than your overall rowing galley, which were very light and had a low draught. Even if you would have oars, you wouldn't hardly get anywhere, as there's simply not enough men to oar. And finally, even if you could get somewhere at a couple of knots, navigation in open seas is impossible at that speed. You cannot stay on course.
But if you look at the Viking Longships, I am guessing they had sails and oars. Why did colonial era nations not follow this design? Was it all about the cargo space?
Also did Triremes from Ancient times also have sales? I have seen pictures, but not sure if legit. How sea worthy were they. I know the Greeks and Romans sailed all over the Med, and I know the Carthaginians sailed down Africa a bit. But can those ships make across the Atlantic?
Another thing to realize. In the open oceans such as the Atlantic or Pacific, wave heights are typically much higher than the relatively placid waters of the Mediterranean. The freeboard had to be, by necessity, much lower to the water than a sailing vessel, which meant that a galley was much more prone to getting swamped in rough seas.
Also, galleys had to be lighter in order to be driven by oar power, which meant that provisioning for larger crews and cargo would be serious challenges on much longer ocean voyages. In the Mediterranean, ships had much shorter distances to cover, whereas crossing the Atlantic meant voyages of at least 3000 miles. They would have run out of food.
How did the Vikings make it?
The kinds of ships the Arabs used, they crossed the indian ocean. And the Polynesians had some primitive vessels too, and they sailed all over the Pacific.
As the engineering improved, and navigation, as well, the sails were usually adequate. Plus, for transatlantic trips, all those rowers would have required enormous food supplies, just to give them the calories it would take to keep them rowing.
Learning the tradewinds, was also key to transoceanic travel. Once navigator figured that out, ships seldom ended up in the doldrums.
But if you look at the Viking Longships, I am guessing they had sails and oars. Why did colonial era nations not follow this design? Was it all about the cargo space?
Also did Triremes from Ancient times also have sales? I have seen pictures, but not sure if legit. How sea worthy were they. I know the Greeks and Romans sailed all over the Med, and I know the Carthaginians sailed down Africa a bit. But can those ships make across the Atlantic?
Viking longships were small light vessels and designed for rowing. Transatlantic ships became quickly so heavy, that even if you put all men on board to oar, your muscle power wouldn't be enough. The ship won't move, and the oars useless.
No, the triremes and galleys weren't really seagoing vessels, not designed for that. They had sails, but that was secondary propulsion.
The sailing design, displacement, and ships stores/cargo capacity of those ships from "the age of sail" for long distance open ocean voyages didn't allow the interior space or feasible use of oars from the vessel.
But those merchant/fishing/whaling ships did have an oar powered alternative for those days of very light or no winds. Keeping the ship moving, even if only a very slow speed was preferable to going nowhere.
They lowered their longboats and the crew rowed those to tow the ship until they reached better sailing conditions. There were two primary reasons to do this: 1) it kept the ship moving across those areas of doldrums, and 2) it gave the crew something to do instead of having them sit around on board, bored and getting into trouble.
Folks today don't realize the amount of manpower that was needed to sail those ships and to handle the acres of canvas that the "tall ships" could spread. They were called "windjammers" for a reason ... with a full spread of sail, it was an impressive sight. They used additional spars to put out sail far beyond the distance of the bare poles you see pictured of the ships at anchor. In full trim, these ships could maintain sailing speeds for days that were fairly enviable for commerce ... in ideal conditions, they could make ocean passages as fast as steamships of their later era. Ships records from the era show some amazing day mileages covered. As well, these ships could handle substantial cargoes that were literally jammed into the holds.
One can get a glimpse of such activity reading many of the books about such activity ... R.H. Dana's "Two Years Before the Mast" is still a great read. He details the days of cramming the holds of the ship in California so that they had a full load to take back to the East coast ports, sailing the long way around South America and then back up the East Coast to New England. Such a merchant voyage from New England departure to return could easily be a two-year venture before the ship owners might see a return. Provisioning and funding such a voyage was a major investment with high risks and profit potential ... far beyond the scope of a lightweight oar propelled vessel. Further reading about the size and scope of the cargoes the merchant fleet could carry is interesting, too ... the Spanish fleet sailings from the New World back to Spain, laden with tons of treasure ... is something that an oar powered craft could not have accomplished nor provisioned a crew for the time at sea.
The lore of the age of sail is to this day a highly complex story. But spanning the oceans with sail powered vessels was the real advance in the development of international trade and politics on a scale far beyond that of overland routes using livestock power to carry valuable cargoes. The development of the sugar trade, for example, from the Caribbean to Europe was a huge business which previously didn't exist because cane sugar didn't grow in European climes ... but the demand for sugar made some folk very wealthy. At one point in time, the "richest" lands in the British Empire were their island plantations in the Caribbean, the most economically productive agricultural lands in the world per acre for decades. And there were a lot of battles fought over these islands for ownership by Spain, France, and England, by fleets of sailors and armies that they sent overseas. Here again, the transport fleets had to carry lots of people, equipment, munitions, stores, and provisions for extended times which took the power of sail to make such a voyage far beyond the capacity of an oar powered vessel.
Last edited by sunsprit; 02-08-2016 at 02:45 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
