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No one who follows their conscience is a "spineless coward." The OP is an obvious troll. My posting here is to present the viewpoint of a combat veteran and the impression we received after we returned that so many in our own country seemed to resent us, and that some seemed to be actively engaged in encouraging our enemies. We believed we were doing our duty; that we owed it to the country. Men like myself actually felt like that in the earlier years of the Vietnam conflict, before it became obvious that the cause was hopeless. Many people in this thread think of us as having been fools in service to an evil government, who enjoyed killing -- but we were no more foolish or evil than were the protestors spineless. After all these years, it should beclear that we were all just young peoplecaught up in an evil time and an evil war...
My brother could have written that paragraph. After spending nine months in three different hospitals, and recuperating from several failed operations, he was released in San Francisco wearing the only clothes he had - his Army uniform - and was promptly called a baby-killer by a group of riders on a bus. I tried to convince him that the protesters which he saw on TV only wanted the killing to stop and the troops to return home safely, but I think their actions hurt him more than his battlefield wounds.
At the time - 1969 - I believed that most of the protesters thought they were doing the right thing, but I don't think they considered the effect the demonstrations would have on morale in the Armed Forces and also on the strategy of the North Vietnamese. Since 20,000 Americans and one million Vietnamese lost their lives after President Johnson initiated the Peace Talks, it's no surprise that the public were angry and frustrated by the delay in ending the war and were looking for someone to blame.
You can live your whole life without ever knowing the truth about some things, but we are fortunate to have an historical record of what transpired behind the scenes then, and who shouldered much of the responsibility.
While I give Nixon props for his efforts in 1972 which eventually got the North, South, and NLF to sign the Peace Accords, his earlier actions caused needless suffering in Vietnam and here at home. This is not to excuse Johnson, who presided over the escalation of the war.
Many were. When Nixon abolished the draft in 1970 the anti-war movement evaporated. No longer fearing the prospect of fighting, they lost interest in protesting.
Many were out-and-out communists. Many times I heard protesters cheering American casualties and North Vietnamese victories. They wanted America to lose and North Vietnam to win.
Some were genuine conscientious observers. I knew a Quaker who objected on religious grounds for instance. But many others were of the death bed conversion type. They found their conscience after getting their draft cards.
Already by the 1960's people were being educated in the do-your-own-thing vein. Duty was only ridiculed, rarely taught and almost never done. Except the easy, safe kind. Self-satisfaction was encouraged and indulged. It certainly didn't leave much room for an archaic concept like service, let alone sacrifice. Especially the ultimate one.
My brother could have written that paragraph. After spending nine months in three different hospitals, and recuperating from several failed operations, he was released in San Francisco wearing the only clothes he had - his Army uniform - and was promptly called a baby-killer by a group of riders on a bus. I tried to convince him that the protesters which he saw on TV only wanted the killing to stop and the troops to return home safely, but I think their actions hurt him more than his battlefield wounds.
At the time - 1969 - I believed that most of the protesters thought they were doing the right thing, but I don't think they considered the effect the demonstrations would have on morale in the Armed Forces and also on the strategy of the North Vietnamese. Since 20,000 Americans and one million Vietnamese lost their lives after President Johnson initiated the Peace Talks, it's no surprise that the public were angry and frustrated by the delay in ending the war and were looking for someone to blame.
You can live your whole life without ever knowing the truth about some things, but we are fortunate to have an historical record of what transpired behind the scenes then, and who shouldered much of the responsibility.
While I give Nixon props for his efforts in 1972 which eventually got the North, South, and NLF to sign the Peace Accords, his earlier actions caused needless suffering in Vietnam and here at home. This is not to excuse Johnson, who presided over the escalation of the war.
Interesting. I personally am skeptical that the Peace Talks would have been successful during the latter part of LBJ's Administration. Both sides were simply too far apart. Indeed, months were literally spent arguing over who would sit at the conference table and even its very shape.
A starting point for this is what both sides wanted to get out of such a settlement. The USA wanted an arrangement where all North Vietnamese forces withdrew to north of the DMZ and than there would have been a complete ceasefire. Perhaps an amnesty could have been arranged for those in the Viet Cong in South Vietnam. In essence, this arrangement would have preserved South Vietnam as a non-communist country. This was what LBJ had sought all along. North Vietnam wanted something completely different. They wanted replacement of the South Vietnamese government with a coalition government that would have included communists and members of the Viet Cong. In essence, this solution would have simply resulted in South Vietnam becoming a communist nation.
These were two rigid positions that resulted in years of negotiations before any compromise could be reached. The USA simply wasn't going to give Hanoi a coalition government in South Vietnam. Nor, was Hanoi going to agree to withdraw its forces from South Vietnam. It literally took four years of talks to get either side to soften its position.
The Paris Accords of 1973 were a compromise of both positions. There was to be no coalition government in South Vietnam, but there was no requirement that North Vietnam had to withdraw its forces either.
A side note to the whole thing is that South Vietnam could have survived as an independent country with this settlement if the government there had found enough support among its people. The country had been left with billions of dollars of sophisticated weaponry. South Vietnamese soldiers had gotten training from American advisers for over a decade. In that sense, it was not America that lost Vietnam. It was the inability of the Saigon government to attract enough support from the Vietnamese people that really cost it the war.
Walter Rostow, whom you quote, is a good source. I tend to believe much of what is said about Nixon here. His actions did not result in a peace settlement not being reached. Yet, they were still reprehensible.
LOL. you can use the term "paranoia" if you wish..........Russia has nucleur missles. They have specific targets. I doubt if they have excluded anything on the north American continent. Except perhaps the kardashians.......
If you do anything to let whatever Russia may have today affect the way you live your life that, in my eye, is paranoia.
I would hope the Kardashians would be prime targets.
As a 'Nam vet, I appreciate the time you put into your message.
You ask was it worth it? I have to look back and say no. Too many of my friends died and for what? A country that hated those who died and those who lived. A country that could care less about Vietnam. And I won't even mention the people of Vietnam.
Looking back, I have to say it was a waste of a lot of good peoples lives. And for many of those who lived through it, many have been tortured with the nightmares of that "conflict." Congress did not even have the nerve to declare it a war!
As for the protesters? I had no real opinion about them when I was in the Army. One hand I feel most were cowards, but on the other hand, would I have wanted one of them over in 'Nam standing guard or covering my back in a firefight? NO! But I sure had a problem with them when I was going to college and it amazes me I didn't end up in jail for assault a few times. When one of the hard line protesters found out I was a 'Nam vet, they tried to push the subject and many times, a bit too far. And that included some of my professors.
In regard to the draft dodgers, they should NEVER have been pardoned. We took our chances in 'Nam, they took their chances in Canada. Those in 'Nam who died could never fulfill their dreams, those who jumped over to Canada (or any other country) fulfilled their dreams by making that decision. They should never have been pardoned by a cowardly president.
All I can say is that I truly thank you for what you did for the United States and the South Vietnamese people. I am so very sorry how many of you were treated and can only hope that those that lauded those insults and poor treatment can now find it in their hearts to say they are sorry too.
While no one can fully reconcile the war, America has to come to grips with the reality of those that served in it. Me? I served in peacetime and protected America from bad beer. However, it was shortly after the end of the Viet Nam war and many were still around to talk about it and the lessons they learned.
Both as a child watching it intently in the 60's to watching Kent State on May 4, 1970 to watching the winding down to my enlistment later in the 70's I can see a lot of it through a rather educated specator's eyes.
All I know is that I always felt so sorry for all of you that served. I immersed myself in the history of the Vietnam War, the battles fought, the decisions made by certain commanders and politicians and came away ultimately saddened and somewhat despondent. America, to a large extent, abandoned you and many of your comrades....the leaders were figuring it out as they went along needlessly expending many lives on both sides. Those lessons learned brought a turn about in Gulf Storm.
Chuck Horner said it best. You have a moral obligation to basically make war as horrible as possible to END it quickly for both sides. In the end, it actually saves lives. Look to Gulf Storm and one can see how one needs to prosecute a war. Have an end game. An exit strategy. Wars of attrition are NEVER good and the outcome is sometimes uncertain. I am paraphrasing Horner's statements but he, like Sherman, believed that war needs to be prosecuted aggressively. In the end, it's best for all sides.
I never could get over the mistakes we made in Viet Nam and it just pains me to review it. What could have been if....it's haunting....I do believe that with luck America will never forget the lessons learned and when you decide to commit our troops to battle you have a tremendous OBLIGATION to give them anything and EVERYTHING they need to win and win quickly. America owes them that much, period.
Again, I sincerely thank you for your service and the sacrifices you and your fellow troops made on behalf of the US and the South Vietnamese people. I hope America can help reconcile the pain many vets feel to this day and to always act accordingly. Oddly enough, after 50 years I do not see many who protested come forth and offer a bit of thanks and understanding. Many did not want to go but, went anyway as directed. Many never came back. Everyone in the US owes you and your comrades that much.
I was only 20 when I returned from the war in 1970. I didn't even know there were war protest going on. Evidently that info was kept away from us or I just didn't pay attention to it. All I remember seeing were those weird Hare Khrisna people at the San Fran Airport. I never was for the War but what could we do. So many of us found ourselves over there within months to a year out of high school. At least those of us in the late 60s early 70s. When the war was really at its worse.
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