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Old 06-15-2016, 04:57 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
3,287 posts, read 2,285,904 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by payutenyodagimas View Post
a resident of Manila during the liberation of Manila asked a GI why they keep on bombarding the walled city of Intramuros because there are so many people trapped there. the GI just retorted : "you mean to say we still have to shipped back these arty shells back to the states?"
Was that the official policy?
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Old 06-15-2016, 05:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpanaPointer View Post
Was that the official policy?
don't know but the result was Manila was 2nd only to Warsaw in destruction after the war. no building remains standing south of the Pasig River where the walled city was and where the Japanese marines made their last stand
Attached Thumbnails
Would Japan have won Guadalcanal if they had used all their battleships?-manila_walled_city_destruction_may_1945.jpg  
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Old 06-15-2016, 06:43 PM
 
Location: Southern Colorado
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Didn't Marshal Admiral Yamamoto more or less predict eventual defeat after finding that none of our Pearl Harbor aircraft carriers had been sunk? "I fear all we have done is awaken a sleeping giant?" Something like that...

EDIT from Wikipedia: it is reputed Yamamoto said, "I fear all we have done today is to awaken a great, sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve.";[14] however, there is no documented evidence the statement was made.

More or less documented: "I shall run wild considerably for the first six months or a year, but I have utterly no confidence for the second and third years."

The writing seemed to be on the wall after our astonishing success at the following Battle of Midway.

Japan was fighting on several fronts. It had to import nearly all of its resources. I don't know of any access to molybdenum for bullet/shell proofing their armaments.

Our manufacturing capabilities dwarfed that of the Japanese. We won with sheer manufacturing capabilities....as well as some other factors.




Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Mitch View Post
So why would the IJN, and IJ military in general, think that the Allies were going to conduct operations in a way that would give Japan an advantage? Typically it's just the opposite, if intel is at least decent.

Maybe I should start a new thread on "What did IJ think their success path was in WWII, starting with Pearl Harbor?"

Last edited by ColoGuy; 06-15-2016 at 06:54 PM..
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Old 06-15-2016, 08:02 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
3,287 posts, read 2,285,904 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoGuy View Post
Didn't Marshal Admiral Yamamoto more or less predict eventual defeat after finding that none of our Pearl Harbor aircraft carriers had been sunk? "I fear all we have done is awaken a sleeping giant?" Something like that...

EDIT from Wikipedia: it is reputed Yamamoto said, "I fear all we have done today is to awaken a great, sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve.";[14] however, there is no documented evidence the statement was made.

More or less documented: "I shall run wild considerably for the first six months or a year, but I have utterly no confidence for the second and third years."

The writing seemed to be on the wall after our astonishing success at the following Battle of Midway.

Japan was fighting on several fronts. It had to import nearly all of its resources. I don't know of any access to molybdenum for bullet/shell proofing their armaments.

Our manufacturing capabilities dwarfed that of the Japanese. We won with sheer manufacturing capabilities....as well as some other factors.
The original quote was "I will run wild for six months to a year. After that I can guarantee nothing."
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Old 06-16-2016, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Southern Colorado
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You must have been there and wrote it down.


Quote:
Originally Posted by OpanaPointer View Post
The original quote was "I will run wild for six months to a year. After that I can guarantee nothing."
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Old 06-16-2016, 08:29 AM
 
Location: St. Louis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoGuy View Post
You must have been there and wrote it down.
No, but it was written down and has been verified by the people who heard him say it. I asked my Tokyo U. prof. friend for confirmation of that. He said that was the best translation of what was said.
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Old 06-16-2016, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Central Washington
1,664 posts, read 865,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bus man View Post
Interesting. I was under the impression that the old battleships (those that weren't at Pearl Harbor on December 7th) were kept on the West Coast until about 1944 or so, when they were brought westward to bombard Japanese-held islands, once the U.S. had gained air supremacy. I thought that only the fast battleships (North Carolina, South Dakota, etc.) were kept anywhere in the South Pacific before then.
With the exception of Arizona and Oklahoma, all of the battleships at Pearl harbor were returned to the west coast and heavily modernized, so much so that at first glance you wouldn't think it was the same ship. Their "cage" (the ships that still had them) masts were removed, new radars, fire controls, and much improved AA protection.

Here is the California before and after modernizing.
Attached Thumbnails
Would Japan have won Guadalcanal if they had used all their battleships?-california.jpg   Would Japan have won Guadalcanal if they had used all their battleships?-california2.jpg  
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Old 06-16-2016, 04:56 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
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The alteration history for any large combatant during the war can drive people. AAA gun mounts appear and disappear at every "availability" (yard period where outside help is available.) Picture don't have dates sometimes, sometimes they're wrong. Sometimes part of the picture are censored. It's just a joy, I tell you.
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Old 06-16-2016, 05:51 PM
 
1,535 posts, read 1,378,102 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southwest88 View Post
There's a point there - the IJA succeeded often enough by sheer audacity - going around the fixed artillery shore defenses @ Singapore, for instance, which fired only to sea. The British defenders thought the landward side was too hard to get through in quantity, with equipment - but the IJ had scouted & found ways through on bicycle & light tanks, & IJA was able to bluff the defenders there @ the end.
Very good points. In addition, the lightly equipped state of the Japanese troops could actually benefit them in some terrain. Large numbers of nimble IJA infantrymen whose logistics consisted of handfuls of rice, salted fish, a rifle and a cartridge belt crossed terrain in the Phillipines, Malaysia / Singapore and Burma that the allies thought to be impassable to all but small numbers of specially trained soldiers.
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