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Old 05-29-2016, 01:18 AM
 
Location: The High Desert
16,068 posts, read 10,723,780 times
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I've seen three or four recent reports or articles that claim to find the key to historical events in environmental factors. Today it was one explaining why the Mongols stopped their advance into Europe -- based on tree ring analysis showing a wet weather pattern in the 1240s. There have been others.


The Mongols were engaged in a power/succession crisis as I recall and turned their attention elsewhere....rain or not. Granted, Russian winters tend to mess up invasion plans. Long droughts cause people to pick up and move to better places. Over use of agricultural resources has been shown to reduce productivity and trigger famine or civil instability or collapse. These things happen.


Are we putting too much emphasis on environmental or weather changes as a causal factor for particular historical events? We are faced with the threat of climate change and scientists are predicting sea level rises and the warming and desertification of some areas. It seems that sometimes a change in direction might just be a change in direction. The whim of a ruler might be all that matters in some cases. Somebody dreams about an eagle eating a snake sitting on a cactus and, voilà, we get what becomes Mexico City. There are commercial or economic factors.


The medieval period was somewhat warmer than the years that followed. That period is sometimes called the Little Ice Age. Colder winters might stop some diseases from spreading. Warmer weather might have favored agriculture in some areas. Greenland settlements were established during the warmer years and abandoned when the climate turned colder. Did colder weather influence the move from cottage crafts and guilds in Europe to an industrial society or was it better methods of transportation of goods and resources?


Anyway, I'm wondering if the concern over our own climate change prospects might be influencing some reinterpretation of singular historical events (rather than long-term historical trends).
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Old 05-29-2016, 05:26 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
5,725 posts, read 11,708,981 times
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I think study of the environment is a worthwhile avenue when looking at history. There may be people who fall in love with particular historical theories (like the Mongol example), but that happens in other avenues of study as well. It makes sense that heightened awareness of the impact of environment and climate might cause people to to at least question how these things have influenced historical events. I don't think there has been any kind of consensus about them though that have led to any radical reinterpretations.
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Old 05-29-2016, 08:29 AM
 
Location: NW Indiana
1,492 posts, read 1,616,936 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SunGrins View Post
I've seen three or four recent reports or articles that claim to find the key to historical events in environmental factors. Today it was one explaining why the Mongols stopped their advance into Europe -- based on tree ring analysis showing a wet weather pattern in the 1240s. There have been others.


The Mongols were engaged in a power/succession crisis as I recall and turned their attention elsewhere....rain or not. Granted, Russian winters tend to mess up invasion plans. Long droughts cause people to pick up and move to better places. Over use of agricultural resources has been shown to reduce productivity and trigger famine or civil instability or collapse. These things happen.


Are we putting too much emphasis on environmental or weather changes as a causal factor for particular historical events? We are faced with the threat of climate change and scientists are predicting sea level rises and the warming and desertification of some areas. It seems that sometimes a change in direction might just be a change in direction. The whim of a ruler might be all that matters in some cases. Somebody dreams about an eagle eating a snake sitting on a cactus and, voilà, we get what becomes Mexico City. There are commercial or economic factors.


The medieval period was somewhat warmer than the years that followed. That period is sometimes called the Little Ice Age. Colder winters might stop some diseases from spreading. Warmer weather might have favored agriculture in some areas. Greenland settlements were established during the warmer years and abandoned when the climate turned colder. Did colder weather influence the move from cottage crafts and guilds in Europe to an industrial society or was it better methods of transportation of goods and resources?


Anyway, I'm wondering if the concern over our own climate change prospects might be influencing some reinterpretation of singular historical events (rather than long-term historical trends).
I read the article on climate change affecting the Mongol invasion of Europe. I think the tree ring data is pretty solid, so the conclusion that the environment affected the Mongol plans seems reasonable in this case.

However, this is definitely not the only time that environmental factors affected military events. Floods, storms and droughts have all had major effects on the outcomes of past military campaigns.

For example, the Ottoman invasion of Europe was stopped at the siege of Vienna in large part because unusually heavy rains prevented the Ottomans from bringing along their heavy cannons.

Storms battered the Mongol fleet and helped defeat their invasion of Japan.

A simple heavy fog helped George Washington successfully retreat from Long Island. His force should have been crushed and the revolution possibly ended there, but a very heavy fog allowed almost all of his army to be ferried away to safety.

I do find it interesting that scientists can now look beyond these fairly clear examples of the effects of single weather events on history and look at broader environmental effects.

Last edited by MyTarge13; 05-29-2016 at 08:30 AM.. Reason: typo
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Old 05-29-2016, 09:42 AM
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Here are some links for you on natural climate change and its effects on civilization.

This one sets the scene of the 1000 AD drought in California:

Yosemite Association - Nature Notes - Great Drought 1

Search this for the pdf: Archaeological perspectives on the effects of medieval drought in prehistoric California

Interesting reading.

For an overview of natural climate change in the west read this book: http://www.amazon.com/West-without-W.../dp/0520286006

It is highly likely that the collapse of the southwest civilization in the American southwest during this period was due to drought.

There are also books on the "Little Ice Age" that cover the effect of climate change on Europe. It has been years since I have read those, but I am sure that you can find that easily with a search. BTW....we would be speaking Swedish instead of English if it wasn't for the "Little Ice Age".

Slightly off-topic.....I don't know if I buy man-caused climate change, but we better do some planning for coping for "natural climate change". Building industrial wind areas, etc. will do nothing to address the effects of natural climate change.

A topic that deserves more discussion.
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Old 05-29-2016, 01:33 PM
 
Location: The High Desert
16,068 posts, read 10,723,780 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maf763 View Post
. It makes sense that heightened awareness of the impact of environment and climate might cause people to to at least question how these things have influenced historical events.

I agree...environmantal change is critical but not always causal. Perhaps I've just stumbled into a flurry of similar interpretations over the last few weeks.
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