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Old 07-14-2016, 06:07 AM
 
Location: Type 0.73 Kardashev
11,110 posts, read 9,770,079 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nolefan34 View Post
When Germany declared war on the U.S., the UK was virtually knocked out of the war and bankrupt. The USSR appeared to be on the brink of collapse with German troops at the gates of Moscow and Leningrad.
Per Goebbels, on November 29 Hitler conceded in a private conversation that the push on Moscow was not going to succeed. By December 5 - six days before the German declaration of war on the United States - the final German offensive before Moscow finally petered out. The Red Army counteroffensive was launched that same day. By December 8, Hitler had ordered troops to assume a defensive position. The USSR wasn't out of the woods yet, but the quick collapsed that Hitler had foreseen was by that point not going to happen. Germany was hunkering down for the winter, hoping to resume the advance in 1942. The Soviets at that point were not on the brink of collapse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nolefan34 View Post
The U.S. Army was small and weak, and rebuilding. We were still 2 years away from sending armies overseas.
80,000+ troops went ashore in North Africa during Torch, less than 11 months after the attack on Pearl Harbor. And the 7th Army landed in Sicily 7 months after that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nolefan34 View Post
Hitler knew this, and bet that he would defeat the USSR before U.S. forces could become a threat. Germany was already at war basically with the U.S. in the Atlantic. So Hitler's decision to declare war on the U.S. was not all that crazy.
I agree that it wasn't all that crazy, but only because the evidence indicates that Hitler merely beat the U.S. to the punch - the United States was going to join the war in the European theater soon regardless of what Hitler did.
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Old 07-14-2016, 06:18 AM
 
Location: St. Louis
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We had drafted 800,000 men in 1940, and extended their term of service a year later, so we were no longer 16th in the world. We still had a long way to go, of course.
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Old 07-14-2016, 07:06 AM
 
2,309 posts, read 3,834,800 times
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Don't forget either folks that FDR and WC were already discussing post - war Europe in August if '41. I mean PH hadn't even happened yet and already European and NA allies are discussing how to carve up the post war continent.
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Old 07-14-2016, 07:50 AM
 
Location: Austin
455 posts, read 461,570 times
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Hitler declaring war on the U.S. and the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor both turned out to be huge mistakes. Had they not happened, FDR would have faced a tougher time uniting the American people behind him. As it happened, Hitler and Tojo did it for him.
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Old 07-14-2016, 07:53 AM
 
Location: St. Louis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenvillebuckeye View Post
Don't forget either folks that FDR and WC were already discussing post - war Europe in August if '41. I mean PH hadn't even happened yet and already European and NA allies are discussing how to carve up the post war continent.
I'm very familiar with this period, so I have to ask you what your source is for that.
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Old 07-14-2016, 07:54 AM
 
Location: St. Louis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Ross View Post
Hitler declaring war on the U.S. and the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor both turned out to be huge mistakes. Had they not happened, FDR would have faced a tougher time uniting the American people behind him. As it happened, Hitler and Tojo did it for him.
By November 1941 most Americans knew we'd have to fight the Axis, it was just a matter of when. Index of /pha/Gallup
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Old 07-15-2016, 07:29 PM
 
3,910 posts, read 9,448,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
80,000+ troops went ashore in North Africa during Torch, less than 11 months after the attack on Pearl Harbor. And the 7th Army landed in Sicily 7 months after that.

You pretty much prove my point. It took us 11 months to send a force of 80,000 overseas for our first large scale campaign. Another 7 months to send a full field army to Italy. Another year to launch D-Day. The point is it took time to build up forces, and we weren't ready to fight in 1940-41.

Had the war against the USSR gone as Hitler planned, the USSR would have folded by early 1942 like they did in WW1. And the entire Wehrmacht could have been directed towards US/British forces. We would have had a tough time fighting with only 80,000 troops against the Wehrmacht which had about 5-6 million by then.
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Old 07-15-2016, 07:31 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
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What was the US troop level in theater before Operation Husky?
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Old 07-15-2016, 07:41 PM
 
3,910 posts, read 9,448,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpanaPointer View Post
We had drafted 800,000 men in 1940, and extended their term of service a year later, so we were no longer 16th in the world. We still had a long way to go, of course.
Agree, but those 800,000 troops had to be used for home defense first, second for garrison duty of places like Greenland, England, and some Pacific Islands, and only then third for offensive capabilities. The offensive armies to be deployed overseas took much longer to develop. That is why it took us until late 1942 to send a smaller offensive force to Africa.

We started in 1939 with only 176,000 troops when conscription was enacted. It takes years to build up from that. Germany and Japan started in the early 1930's and had about a 6-7 year head start on us in troop conscription. It took the U.S. until 1943 to reach 90 divisions of army troops numbering about 7 million. And the U.S. capped its army at 90 divisions. It was never allowed to grow as big as the Wehrmacht or Soviet armies.
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Old 07-15-2016, 07:56 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
3,287 posts, read 2,293,615 times
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You're not counting the National Guard, who could be activated. There were a few talented people there. One was a veteran of WWI, artillery officer, IIRC. He went on to make colonel in the peace time NG, no mean feat. And then he became a senator, a vice president, and then a president.
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