What happens when American History artifacts are stolen? (general, Mexico, Spanish)

[OrionsAngel]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/ARTIFACT_ARREST?SITE=TXDAM&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=D EFAULT (broken link)

I hope this link is correct, but if not, please google for the story about stolen American artifacts that were sold on ebay, from 2001-Feb 2008 to know what happened recently, as I dont see the articles widely spread or talked about just yet.
Does it mean if someone steals the Declaration of Independence, then our country reverts back to the crown?
How on earth could they have gotten away with that for 7 years??
I have to wonder what all is missing?
Should we be upset by this?

[Six Foot Three]

Yeah it's a sad fact of reality. I wonder of all the artifacts of all the different countries of the different time eras have been stolen and restolen or sold and resold.

I was reading about how the bones of the Anglo Saxon kings that were buried in the 800's and 900's in the abbeys have been all stolen over the years.

[ontheroad]

Art and artifacts are less likely to be stolen in the US than elsewhere. Here's an article in Slate about another recent theft of three (defined) masterpieces.

And last week's BBC reported not only theft but a huge counterfeiting operation, finally caught, where dozens of artifact, sculptures and paintings were sent into the art market undetected.

Resale is generally done silently, not in public auctions, or publicized, and often negotiated over a glass of sherry or a shot of whiskey.

[OrionsAngel]

I wonder if stealing the bones of the saints from the western hebrides was a form of hiding a bloodline?

[Mooseketeer]

I can't comment about American artefacts but as an Archaeologist, it was very common on all the excavations to get contacted by "private collectors" and offered large sums of money for whatever came out of the ground ( I mostly excavated in Central America).

One of my Professors used to boast he could have been a multi-millionaire had it not been for his refusal to be bribed.

Most artefacts which will be stolen will be taken mostly at the source or before they have been properly researched.

There is a huge trade in Archaeological artefacts and collectors can become quite persistent. There is also a huge market in counterfeit artefacts , some of them of incredibly high quality and almost impossible to detect as being fraudulent.

We heard of quite a few Archaeologists who had been "intimidated" some threatened. There have been instances of some being assaulted and beaten up.

It is also common for some Archaeological expeditions to be funded by such people and IMO this is why this kind of research must be funded centrally by governments and licensed Academic authorities.

Most re-sale is done on the quiet and it is mostly a black-market kind of activity. Sadly though quite a few auctioneers and antique dealers are less than scrupulous at checking provenance, making it easier for art theft to be perpetrated.

It is a shameful trade and I cannot bear to think how much has been lost.

We have a duty to protect our heritage. Artefacts are beyond mere objects. They are the precious link between us and our past and they deserve more respect than they are often afforded.

[OrionsAngel]

I so agree with you Mouseketeer! And I am aware of the "intimidations", as it pertains to my studies of the Pictographs in the new oilfields here in CO, and in Utah. There will be no "In situ" sites left when this is all over. I think thats why I fight so hard to do whatever "salvage archaeology" I can possibly do, before it's too late. The Oilfield companies hire their own Archaeologists to prescreen the drill site, and it seems the homested decended natives will not have that privilage to continue to protect the sites they have known their whole lives. (I am one of them!) I suppose that is a part of the chip I wear on my shoulder, and maybe thats why I am here on C-D to ask for help.

[Mooseketeer]

Originally Posted by OrionsAngel

I so agree with you Mouseketeer! And I am aware of the "intimidations", as it pertains to my studies of the Pictographs in the new oilfields here in CO, and in Utah. There will be no "In situ" sites left when this is all over. I think thats why I fight so hard to do whatever "salvage archaeology" I can possibly do, before it's too late. The Oilfield companies hire their own Archaeologists to prescreen the drill site, and it seems the homested decended natives will not have that privilage to continue to protect the sites they have known their whole lives. (I am one of them!) I suppose that is a part of the chip I wear on my shoulder, and maybe thats why I am here on C-D to ask for help.

I know exactly what you mean. Financial interest and political expediency seem to take precedence over preserving our heritage.

On a different note, I note you have a deep interest in Pictographs and are obviously doing a lot of research on it. How is it going ?
I am fascinated by parietal art and have been lucky enough to see some of the ones in Utah and the South-West as well as some in Canada ( BC).

I was appalled how badly preserved some were ( one of the sites in BC was covered in Graffiti and virtually on the main road with no signs, no explanation, nothing). I thought it was shameful that such precious remnants of our past should be so discarded and so badly treated.

I saw an excellent lecture last year by David Robinson, an American Professor on the Rock -Art of Souther California , it was fascinating.

I am myself really into French and Spanish Parietal art ( purely as an amateur ) and painted and engraved caves are a passion of mine.

[OrionsAngel]

You would love to come here!! I have been to Mexico, but didnt make it to San Ignacio (sp?), where the 10,000 year old cave paintings are. They say you will go in on a burro, and prepare to spend 3 days just to get in and out of there. You have to pay the guides well.
Utah has a great deal of the Fremont Culture writings, and they do try harder to protect them. Colorado has issues with money to protect them, the funding for historic projects comes from the gambling profits. I am aware that the local museum where I grew up had issues about too much politics keeping them from doing what needed to be done to become an "accredited" reciprocal that had the nessesary preservation equipment like the air control ect.. They could not house the local artifacts, and they were sent away to who knows where?
There is a great site for 4 types of Pictographs and Petroglyphs from different peoples at different times, at a place called Thompson Springs, it has a public interpretation and a parking facility, and it is a great stop to make if you are going on down to Moab to view the "newspaper rock" sites. It is on I-70 at about an hour west of Grand Jct, take the Thompson springs turnoff, follow north about 4 miles into the mouth of Sego Canyon, but you cant go any farther in, it's a Ute reservation, and is kept private. If you take a trip to Moab from there, you come out into Canyonlands National Park, and Arches National Park. A fabulous place to see, plan to spend some time!
It's a great trek. Ride the river!

[OrionsAngel]

Oh, one more thing you might like about me, lol. I was issued a trespassing ticket on public land issue, and I found out things they didnt want me to know. So I made a bumper sticker that said "Registered trespasser,Habitual Archaeologist", you should have seen them laughing!

[OrionsAngel]

I was kinda proud to see the Scots stole back the Stone of Scone , and they call us the rebels?