Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 07-26-2016, 12:15 PM
 
18,844 posts, read 27,268,040 times
Reputation: 20186

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by OpanaPointer View Post
The only problem with Communism is there are people involved. And enough people will take more than they need and/or give less than they can to screw everything up for everybody. (I explained this to the editor of The Marxist Review once, over beers. I thought he was going to choke. )

Exactly.
Human will take ANY most noble idea and turn it into a horrible failure.
OP apparently has no idea what are the basic principles of communism.
There absolutely nothing wrong with them.
Problem is - they are supposed to be implemented by humans and they will immediately take advantage of ANY system.
Matter of fact, ANY social or economic set up, known to humanity, would have been not so bad, should humans in it be honest, caring, responsible, minding others welfare as much as they mind their own, and so on.
It's not the ideas that are bad, it's those who execute them.

As of was it bad or not for the USSR to be dismantled.
Well, lets take a different look at this. USA and in general capitalism golden years - as in more or less prosperous life for regular folks, social benefits, etc - fall to exactly what period of time? Right after WWII and about till fall of the USSR. Thereafter, it all slowly but steadily goes down.
You ever thought that capitalist countries were actually forced to "be nice" due to example, set by the USSR? Where healthcare was free, education was free, employment was available and mandatory, retirement was guaranteed and safe and secure? Should it even have nothing but a propaganda - which is actually not the case, as I KNOW what I am talking about - it still had to be addressed.
Who sets example now? No one.
Also, an international bully with a gun (country starts with U) at least had a deterrent. Now? Free to do whatever it pleases anywhere it pleases.
So, honestly, folks, you should regret there is no more noble example set in the world to follow.

 
Old 07-26-2016, 12:19 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
3,287 posts, read 2,287,535 times
Reputation: 2172
I don't think it was a noble idea, I think it was another "this will fix everything" scheme.
 
Old 07-26-2016, 12:22 PM
 
254 posts, read 191,974 times
Reputation: 413
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
Generalize much? Ponder these...

Acts 2:44-45
And all those who had believed were together and had all things in common; and they began selling their property and possessions and were sharing them with all, as anyone might have need.

Acts 4:32
And the congregation of those who believed were of one heart and soul; and not one of them claimed that anything belonging to him was his own, but all things were common property to them.

Acts 4:34-36
For there was not a needy person among them, for all who were owners of land or houses would sell them and bring the proceeds of the sales and lay them at the apostles' feet, and they would be distributed to each as any had need.
That's interesting, since that's a parable about how the government opposed Jesus and the people rejected the government and embraced God. Then they voluntarily gave to the poor, without government coercion, because of their belief in God. That sounds exactly like liberalism. My bad.
 
Old 07-26-2016, 12:31 PM
 
14,780 posts, read 43,511,849 times
Reputation: 14621
Quote:
Originally Posted by momomanno View Post
That's interesting, since that's a parable about how the government opposed Jesus and the people rejected the government and embraced God. Then they voluntarily gave to the poor, without government coercion, because of their belief in God. That sounds exactly like liberalism. My bad.
ummm...no. It's a description of the idealized communal life of those coming together in Christ through the Holy Spirit. It is, in essence, the ideal expression of the Christian community that all should strive for. Of course, that's just the interpretation of every major denomination of Christianity. You are free to believe what you want.

Like I said, you don't even understand the actual definition of the words you are throwing around. How can we have a debate?
 
Old 07-26-2016, 12:36 PM
 
254 posts, read 191,974 times
Reputation: 413
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
Of course, that's just the interpretation of every major denomination of Christianity.
Actually, it's not, since it's very clearly written. The best part was you cut out all the verses about God. LMAO
 
Old 07-26-2016, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,214 posts, read 11,258,626 times
Reputation: 20827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garchompa View Post
I guess the title explains most of it, but it amazes me there are people that still think that not only was the downfall of the USSR a bad thing but there is actually anything about the satan-inspired communism that was good.

Now I will admit capitalism may not be near perfect but does anyone truly believe if they had to choose between a world where communism dominates everything and a world where capitalism dominates everything they would choose the communist world? To anyone who isn't mentally challenged it's as simple as asking who would you rather hang out with, Jesus, or Satan?
"Pure" capitalism is what happens in the absence of government interference of any kind. While I see it as the positive outcome of an economic system based upon simple, empirical reason, and view economic, expressionary, and personal freedom as unitary (tamper with one, and the others are compromised) this is not going to fly in a mature, industrialized society where large entities wield enormous power, often with mass media who know what they're selling and the base levels of intelligence to which they pander. Nor is it compatible with an economy built upon overuse of credit in order to ensnare the short-sighted and the impressionable.

That is why every mature, tested democracy has a societal "safety net" and most of us with strong free-market sentiments would have no problem if access to that "safety net" were locally policed, so that the small minority who seek to make a career choice of indolence and parasitism can be identified and "weeded out".

But you lost me, Gramps, when you came up with the idea of "Satan-inspired" communism / socialism / "progressivism"; it tells me that you're just one more absolutist with an agenda you want to impose on everybody.
 
Old 07-26-2016, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 23,987,897 times
Reputation: 21237
Quote:
Originally Posted by momomanno View Post
Actually, it doesn't. You're just saying that it does and hoping that nobody knows otherwise. Jesus didn't say "you get to work and support this guy who doesn't work" and He certainly didn't say "oh, by the way, we're going to set up a large centralized bureaucracy to oversee this and, of course, we need to make a living so we're going to take our salaries out of what you send us and eat caviar and drink vodka. Can I get an 'amen'?"

The thing is that liberals hate the Bible, therefore they get their biblical knowledge from Internet google searches where other liberals tell them what the Bible said. Then they excitedly tell each other that Jesus (who they still despise anyways) was on their side (which is really gross, but they'll take it anyways).
It is clear to me that yours is a religion driven position rather than an intellectual one. I see little point in trying to disabuse faith based beliefs since logic is not useful in those situations.
 
Old 07-26-2016, 12:52 PM
 
254 posts, read 191,974 times
Reputation: 413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
It is clear to me that yours is a religion driven position rather than an intellectual one.
No, I'm not a liberal.
 
Old 07-26-2016, 12:52 PM
 
14,780 posts, read 43,511,849 times
Reputation: 14621
Quote:
Originally Posted by momomanno View Post
Actually, it's not, since it's very clearly written. The best part was you cut out all the verses about God. LMAO
LMAO...this is the history forum, not Bible study. I know what the book says and what the general interpretation of the section is. There are a lot of sections about God since the worship of God was an integral part of the community. However, such communal life as described in the passages I quoted are exactly that...a description of the ideal of Christian communal life.

Regardless, God has no place in the discussion of economic theory to begin with.
 
Old 07-26-2016, 12:54 PM
 
14,780 posts, read 43,511,849 times
Reputation: 14621
Quote:
Originally Posted by momomanno View Post
No, I'm not a liberal.
So, there are no conservative atheists? That's news to me...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top