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A new move to do away with the star spangled banner?????
I say it's high time that The Star Spangled Banner be replaced with an anthem celebrating America and not the glory of battle and most importantly not requiring an operatic voice to do it justice.
Two songs come to mind: "America the Beautiful" and "This Land is Your Land." The former requires a good singing voice but just about anyone can sing the latter.
I say it's high time that The Star Spangled Banner be replaced with an anthem celebrating America and not the glory of battle and most importantly not requiring an operatic voice to do it justice.
Two songs come to mind: "America the Beautiful" and "This Land is Your Land." The former requires a good singing voice but just about anyone can sing the latter.
It has more to do with the perseverance of the people within the compound being bombarded to never give up.. Pretty powerful. Lots of patriotism.
I am pretty sure the black people viewed it harshly;otherwise why did they try to get free?
Also,on another note,why are we in the present(The USA) trying to apply our moral standards to the Middle Eastern majority Muslim countries?
Actually there were probably many slaves who didn't view it as oppression, especially those who were born in to it. It was just the way things were to them. They had never known freedom in their lives. To them, slavery was just life.
But, as time goes by, so too do we advance as a species.... hence the abolition movement and the war fought to bring it in to fruition.
Last edited by WhipperSnapper 88; 09-01-2016 at 12:42 PM..
Abolitionists of all races viewed slavery pretty harshly; otherwise, it would still possibly exist.
And 80 years ago, legalizing gay marriage wouldn't have been possible, and nobody thought twice about it. But like I said, times change and so do people. As we advance as a people, we improve intellectually and become more sophisticated.
Last edited by WhipperSnapper 88; 09-01-2016 at 12:39 PM..
Oh yeah, it's the era of 0bama, and everyone is thoroughly obsessed with race, looking at the world thru racially tinted lens of suspicion and distrust.
Indeed. I wish we as a society had this level of outrage over Slavery and Jim Crow when Slavery and Jim Crow were actually going on.
Yeah, but people that defend the "man of his time" view are the same people that say that America was founded on Judeo Christian principles.
Can't have it both ways. Did the Bible read differently back then?
Because if it didn't, I've got every right to hold them to today's standard.
Well I'm not one of those people. I'm an Atheist, as are you if I remember correctly. But religion is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. As we advance as a people, become more sophisticated and gain a better understanding of our world, we are becoming ever more secular and are leaving the barbarity of religion behind us, slowly but surely.
The men who wrote the Bible and believed in it in the past had an excuse, they knew little of the world around them. Those who still choose to believe in religion today are without excuse, just as someone who would try and defend the barbaric practice of slavery today would be without excuse.
Yeah, but people that defend the "man of his time" view are the same people that say that America was founded on Judeo Christian principles.
Can't have it both ways. Did the Bible read differently back then?
Because if it didn't, I've got every right to hold them to today's standard.
Has it not dawned on you that the dynamic is an ongoing process? That some time in the future the people will be looking back on us as we are now, and finding all sorts of moral outrages which we currently tolerate? Applying an absolute modern standard is obviously a losing proposition because you will always have people falling short of standards which did not exist until after they died.
Do you view yourself as a moral person? What if 150 years from now, horse racing has been eliminated and has come to be viewed as cruel exploitation of animals? Are you now an immoral person because you are not making any efforts to get horse racing banned? Or would you defend yourself by saying "When I was alive, no one seemed to think horse racing was immoral."
And of course I'm not actually interested in your views on horse racing, I'm just using that as an example of possibilities. It could be any number of things which you currently don't think about at all, but will have become big issues in the future.
To condemn those of the past by applying modern moral standards, is to condemn yourself before future generations.
Indeed. I wish we as a society had this level of outrage over Slavery and Jim Crow when Slavery and Jim Crow were actually going on.
It's a lot cheaper and easier now. To get this outraged back in the day would have meant you had to put some skin in the game, and, now as ever, most people don't want to do that. Just sayin'.
To comment on another post - while slavery is not, to the best of my knowledge, legal in any country now, that is not to say there are no slaves now. Slavery still exists, under the table so to speak, in some areas, and then you have all these refugees who are being shipped across the Med by unscrupulous, to say the least, operators, many are drowned. And you have sorts of indentured servitude where people (frequently Philippinas) go abroad for work and their passport is held by the employer, who abuses them to greater or lesser degrees as they see fit. And people sold into human trafficking, frequently but not always girls for sex "work".
The problem is that people want to judge people of the past by the moral standards of today...
Sure, slavery was and has always been an abomination, as far as we humans in the 21st century are concerned, but people didn't view it as harshly back then because they grew up in a world where it was accepted.
It isn't fair to apply todays moral standards to people of the past.
It is called "presentism".
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Originally Posted by jerseygal4u
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Which people would that be?
I am pretty sure the black people viewed it harshly;otherwise why did they try to get free?
Also,on another note,why are we in the present(The USA) trying to apply our moral standards to the Middle Eastern majority Muslim countries?
Prisoners also try to get free; what is your point? It was still an accepted norm, and blacks themselves practiced at that time. Slaves of all races often tried to get free, numerous serfs of the Russian Empire escaped to Cossack lands or into the forests out of the reach of the authorities. Slave revolts litter history. And yes, this was the norm and yes, if given the chance, many of these slaves would have slaves themselves if they could, it is not like they were standing on some moral high ground.
We are trying to apply our moral standards to Muslim countries? When in the hell did that happen? What moral standard is that? We fully support Saudi Arabia, one of the most brutal regimes in the world, I fail to see how we are imposing our moral standard on them. But at that, your key word is "present", unlike many people who are imposing present moral views on the past.
Yeah, but people that defend the "man of his time" view are the same people that say that America was founded on Judeo Christian principles.
Can't have it both ways. Did the Bible read differently back then?
Because if it didn't, I've got every right to hold them to today's standard.
I guess you do not know what "Judeo Christian principles" are...It is not a religion, it is ethics. The country was not founded upon these principles as the damn term was not even around then.
There is not "both ways" about it; viewing past events and persons with a present day moral compass is called "presentism", something anyone with an education and maybe a dab of common sense avoids doing, unless of course they have an agenda.
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Abolitionists of all races viewed slavery pretty harshly; otherwise, it would still possibly exist.
