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Old 05-29-2020, 08:16 AM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
30,353 posts, read 67,008,413 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimAZ View Post
The Mob and Herbert Hoover wanted Bobby Kennedy gone, but killing him would create a martyr and bring the wrath of JFK.
Mob bosses could live with LBJ as President and they knew that Johnson hated Bobby Kennedy.
Hoover and LBJ whitewashed the assassination with the Warren Commission, and the rest is history.
^^ As far as it goes here and even with a fair bit of revisionist... almost everyone will agree with these points.

Quote:
The easy decision was to assassinate JFK because it was a two-fer.
Done (or even financed) by the Mob? No way.
I just don't see them pulling it all together any more than Oswald acting alone.
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Old 05-29-2020, 10:15 AM
 
1,812 posts, read 892,738 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
The Kennedys probably know--one of them hinted at that just a few years ago. But why would they tell unless they wanted to get killed too.

Interestingly enough, this was the same reason a nightclub singer who knew Oswald kept her mouth shut.
Until 10 years ago, when she appeared on a 6 hour long JFK BBC documentary, in which she claims the shooter to be a man wearing a police officer's uniform.
JFK had enemies on all sides, even the world's most powerful bankers wanted him gone; for printing currency instead of borrowing from the Fed Res.
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Old 05-29-2020, 10:18 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
7,742 posts, read 11,460,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Done (or even financed) by the Mob? No way.
I just don't see them pulling it all together any more than Oswald acting alone.
I tend to agree with this and Mircea.

The only "mob" involvement is the saying "keep your friends close, but your enemies closer", which really goes back to ancient times.

In other words, most likely people closest to Kennedy betrayed him.

Mircea says Johnson was not involved, maybe, but that's close enough, regardless of who pulled the trigger at whose behest.


Even in very recent times with the Soleimani killing, if you go behind the headlines and read some more in-depth reports, it seems, and it's very likely, that he was betrayed by people on the ground in Lebanon and Baghdad who knew him and his movements, probably higher-ups in Iran, who found someone else in turn with the means to do them a small favor - yes, men in power are funny that way -, remove a stone in their shoe, as another saying goes.

Enjoy!
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Old 05-29-2020, 12:57 PM
 
4,991 posts, read 2,305,254 times
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There is a lot of evidence involving Sam Giancana and the Chicago outfit.
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Old 05-29-2020, 01:57 PM
 
10,447 posts, read 10,183,657 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madison999 View Post
There is a lot of evidence involving Sam Giancana and the Chicago outfit.
All of these theories have virtually no evidentiary support.

The one you have cited though is one of the worst. Giancana may well have helped JFK be elected President. He probably felt double-crossed when Bobby Kennedy pursued the mafia as attorney general. That much is true.

Here's the problem though. The FBI was extensively wiretapping mafia people during the early 60's. Most of those tapes survive. On them, you can hear mafioso confessing to all sorts of horrible crimes including murder and even torture of those had run afoul of them. Not once, though, will you find a tape where anyone mentions being part of a plan to kill JFK.

Actually, this shouldn't really surprise anyone. The mafia, no matter how big a blight it has been, always had a policy of not assassinating or murdering politicians in the USA. Leadership correctly believed that if they did something like this that it would lead to a national campaign to eliminate organized crime. The mafia has bribed many politicians. It has extorted others. It has placed many in compromising positions. However, it generally draws the line at murdering them for the reasons I've mentioned above.

None of the conspiracy theories find any real support. Most people don't look very carefully at Jack Ruby's murder of Oswald either. They just insist it was all part of a "conspiracy to shut Oswald up". In reality, Ruby shot Oswald with a pistol he kept all the time to protect himself as a nightclub manager. He was across the street when Oswald was being moved to another jail because his bank was across the street and he was making a deposit. Ruby even had his dog in his vehicle with him. This seems unlikely for a man who had made a plan to murder someone. JFK was a popular president. His killer was bound to be an object of public hatred. I think many people besides Ruby would have considered it an honor to murder him.
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Old 05-29-2020, 05:14 PM
 
Location: stuck in the woods with bears and moose
21,951 posts, read 21,058,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Austin023 View Post
I'm going to revive this thread sorry to say.
The sewer aspect I've long found very interesting...a so often ignored theory that frankly while I normally would find incredible, might be plausible in these circumstances.
Personally, I think Oswald was used as a patsy (he even admitted so on television after his arrest) by agents ...my general theory is rogue elements of CIA in league with either mafia or anti Castro figures orchestrated the assassination.



Oswald was absolutely involved but was meant to be found. His behavior after the assassination is telling I think...his killing of officer Tippit and then the hiding out in the theater, drawing attention to himself by entering without a ticket, etc. It's as if some part of the plan didn't go right (and wasn't meant to, unbeknownst to Oswald). Oswald panicked when his promised help of escape and concealment was not forthcoming. Even if he told all that very day he was arrested, I doubt he would have known enough to expose the chief actors. He was set up as the fall boy. That's basically how I see it.
I'm glad you re-opened it. There will always be some who are interested in history and in learning the truth. Not that I think we can ever really know the truth in this case.

But Oswald was definitely set up. Even when he said that he was just a patsy, it was so obvious and natural in the way he said it. The look on his face--as if, why would anyone believe otherwise?

But, as was established previously, maybe even in this thread, he was working for some part of the government, maybe the CIA, and he was taught Russian by our own government. He was also welcomed back from Russia by our own government, not held or interrogated or questioned as a spy. Russia was our worst enemy back then but they just let him come back, no questions asked.

It looks as though he'd been told that someone would be there to pick him up after he fired the shot/s but since no one was there, he panicked and ran off. He was duped. Gullible. Thought he could be an important guy playing with the Big Boys. I think he had that kind of personality--wanting to be important, do something important, be a part of something big. But he wasn't sophisticated enough to play with the Big Boys and he got duped.

LBJ had nothing to do with it. He did find out about it the night before (as we have said before) and he was happy to hear about the plan. He wasn't involved though, I don't think.

Just to clarify a few typos or errors in previous posts, JFK's summer home was in Hyannisport, not Kennebunkport and Hoover was not Herbert Hoover, the former President. It was J. Edgar Hoover, head of the FBI and known to not be a very "nice" person. IIRC, he, too hated JFK.
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Old 05-31-2020, 11:49 PM
 
4,991 posts, read 2,305,254 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
All of these theories have virtually no evidentiary support.

The one you have cited though is one of the worst. Giancana may well have helped JFK be elected President. He probably felt double-crossed when Bobby Kennedy pursued the mafia as attorney general. That much is true.

Here's the problem though. The FBI was extensively wiretapping mafia people during the early 60's. Most of those tapes survive. On them, you can hear mafioso confessing to all sorts of horrible crimes including murder and even torture of those had run afoul of them. Not once, though, will you find a tape where anyone mentions being part of a plan to kill JFK.

Actually, this shouldn't really surprise anyone. The mafia, no matter how big a blight it has been, always had a policy of not assassinating or murdering politicians in the USA. Leadership correctly believed that if they did something like this that it would lead to a national campaign to eliminate organized crime. The mafia has bribed many politicians. It has extorted others. It has placed many in compromising positions. However, it generally draws the line at murdering them for the reasons I've mentioned above.

None of the conspiracy theories find any real support. Most people don't look very carefully at Jack Ruby's murder of Oswald either. They just insist it was all part of a "conspiracy to shut Oswald up". In reality, Ruby shot Oswald with a pistol he kept all the time to protect himself as a nightclub manager. He was across the street when Oswald was being moved to another jail because his bank was across the street and he was making a deposit. Ruby even had his dog in his vehicle with him. This seems unlikely for a man who had made a plan to murder someone. JFK was a popular president. His killer was bound to be an object of public hatred. I think many people besides Ruby would have considered it an honor to murder him.
I disagree with the Giancana comment. My understanding was that Giancana helped old Jack Kennedy out of trouble with the five families in NY. I think there was a hit out on him.

Giancana got it squelched and cut a deal with Jack to help get JFK elected and Giancana would get exclusive access. Two things are pretty solid here; that he indeed helped get JFK elected and within mob circles Giancana was considered a really dumb boss, historically speaking.

After elected the Kennedy's knew they had to go on the attack, especially against Giancana. Then Bobby went after the mob.

I think one version is that Ruby screwed up with Oswald, he was supposed to kill him before he got arrested. He screwed up and then had to do it in that manner because it would be his last chance and he was dead either way.
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Old 06-01-2020, 08:45 AM
 
13,507 posts, read 19,619,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madison999 View Post
I disagree with the Giancana comment. My understanding was that Giancana helped old Jack Kennedy out of trouble with the five families in NY. I think there was a hit out on him.

Giancana got it squelched and cut a deal with Jack to help get JFK elected and Giancana would get exclusive access. Two things are pretty solid here; that he indeed helped get JFK elected and within mob circles Giancana was considered a really dumb boss, historically speaking.

After elected the Kennedy's knew they had to go on the attack, especially against Giancana. Then Bobby went after the mob.

I think one version is that Ruby screwed up with Oswald, he was supposed to kill him before he got arrested. He screwed up and then had to do it in that manner because it would be his last chance and he was dead either way.
These consipiracy theories amaze me. As we seem to be on the "Mob killed JFK" tangent (different from the Russians kills him theory, or the CIA theory, or the grassy knoll theory, or the military industrial complex theory, or the LBJ theory, or the New Orleans theory, or the.....). Two questions:
-Why didn't Ruby simply kill JFK himself? Cut out the middle man.
-As the mobs dispute was with RFK, why didn't they just whack RFK?
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Old 06-01-2020, 10:19 AM
 
Location: San Diego CA
6,253 posts, read 4,110,213 times
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Wild eyed loner whack jobs have assassinated people throughout history. This was no exception but it makes for intriguing speculation amongst the conspiracy crowd.
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Old 06-01-2020, 11:31 AM
 
Location: stuck in the woods with bears and moose
21,951 posts, read 21,058,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgsing View Post
Wild eyed loner whack jobs have assassinated people throughout history. This was no exception but it makes for intriguing speculation amongst the conspiracy crowd.
Then why are you here reading this? I, for one, am not a conspiracy theorist. I don't believe conspiracies about 911 or the moon landing or any of the rest of them. I have believed, right along with most people, practically from the beginning, that there was more to the assassination then we were told. We were handed the Warren Commission's report and we scoffed at it back then. We didn't believe in conspiracies, we just thought the Warren Commission report sounded fishy.

If you were alive back then, you would know about how President Eisenhower warned about the Military Industrial Complex in his farewell speech. That's not a conspiracy either.

One thing someone mentioned--someone who was a suspect (I think) said, "we should have gone after RFK instead."

Also, just a footnote, our country has never been the same since. Whoever wanted them killed must have succeeded in really messing this country up. Whatever their agenda was, looks like they got it. They won. The country that was on such a high road back in the 60s is now in the sewer.
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