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Old 06-01-2020, 11:58 AM
 
Location: San Diego CA
6,254 posts, read 4,110,213 times
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So it’s a discussion forum with people expressing different thoughts and fact patterns in a history forum? You seem to be suggesting that since my dissenting opinion is at odds with your conspiracy theories I am barred from participating. Rubbish.
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Old 06-01-2020, 12:02 PM
 
4,991 posts, read 2,305,254 times
Reputation: 4861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
These consipiracy theories amaze me. As we seem to be on the "Mob killed JFK" tangent (different from the Russians kills him theory, or the CIA theory, or the grassy knoll theory, or the military industrial complex theory, or the LBJ theory, or the New Orleans theory, or the.....). Two questions:
-Why didn't Ruby simply kill JFK himself? Cut out the middle man.
-As the mobs dispute was with RFK, why didn't they just whack RFK?
It doesn't matter to me what anyone believes and we'll never know anyway. I'm implying that the mob helped the CIA and would never have done something like this on their own. Ever.

Your two questions don't make any sense.

The line I'm laying out is that Ruby didn't want to kill anyone. He was ordered and had no choice.

Your second question doesn't make any sense in relation to my previous post. They would never hit RFK on their own. If they could help take out JFK why wouldn't they? Their old man put JFK in a spot that he would have no choice but to go after the mob.

And even if they would hit someone like this on their own, which they NEVER, EVER would, why would you take out the beloved brother and leave an enraged president to come after you even worse immediately afterwards?

I could care less what you believe but it doesn't seem like you've ever actually looked at the Giancana angle or have any knowledge of the Outfit or mafia in general, otherwise you wouldn't ask ridiculous questions like that, that don't even make any sense.
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Old 06-01-2020, 12:18 PM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
30,359 posts, read 67,008,413 times
Reputation: 35980
Quote:
Originally Posted by msgsing View Post
You seem to be suggesting that since my dissenting opinion is at odds with your conspiracy theories I am barred from participating. Rubbish.
Try this: The revealed truth attitude toward the Warren Commission is the Big Daddy of conspiracy theories.
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Old 06-01-2020, 12:53 PM
 
13,507 posts, read 19,619,209 times
Reputation: 22374
Quote:
Originally Posted by madison999 View Post
It doesn't matter to me what anyone believes and we'll never know anyway. I'm implying that the mob helped the CIA and would never have done something like this on their own. Ever.

Your two questions don't make any sense.

The line I'm laying out is that Ruby didn't want to kill anyone. He was ordered and had no choice.

Your second question doesn't make any sense in relation to my previous post. They would never hit RFK on their own. If they could help take out JFK why wouldn't they? Their old man put JFK in a spot that he would have no choice but to go after the mob.

And even if they would hit someone like this on their own, which they NEVER, EVER would, why would you take out the beloved brother and leave an enraged president to come after you even worse immediately afterwards?

I could care less what you believe but it doesn't seem like you've ever actually looked at the Giancana angle or have any knowledge of the Outfit or mafia in general, otherwise you wouldn't ask ridiculous questions like that, that don't even make any sense.
My two questions make perfect sense. Don't get angry. I am more curious on the logical deduction. So let me address a few followup questions:
  1. Why did a two-bit loser (and a cop wannabe) like Jack Ruby "have no choice". How was he compelled?
  2. In regards to JFK as the target. I understand the "enraged president" angle but then you still have RFK, who was still in the cabinet as AG until he left to be senator, and then ran for president only a few years later. So that explanation doesn't make perfect sense. He is turn was assassinated but I don't think anyone blames RFK on the mob as well. RFK was the point man in the attack on the Mafia, the teamsters, Hoffa. I understand JFK's link to the mafia but it wasn't JFK that was turning on them, that was RFK's thing (based party on a personal fued with Hoffa).
  3. Bonus question: How could the mob have relied on a .38 caliber revolver to kill Oswald with one shot to the mid-section. Such single shots are more than likely non-fatal, this one damaged some vital organs and obviously was fatal. The point being this was a big gamble by the mob, which usually prefers more reliable means (i.e. a double tap in the head) even when outsourcing a hit. At least "Vito" could have given Ruby a more powerful handgun.
  4. Edit Bonus question #2: If the theory is that someone "took out" Oswald to keep him from talking. Why didn't someone "take out" Ruby to keep him from talking? He didn't die until years later.

By the way RFK was on record as believing Oswald, and only Oswald was responsible. Decades...30 years or so, a few of his advisors came out and said RFK did have his doubts, but nevertheless RFKs statements are the only ones verified.
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Old 06-01-2020, 02:17 PM
 
13,507 posts, read 19,619,209 times
Reputation: 22374
Quote:
Originally Posted by msgsing View Post
So it’s a discussion forum with people expressing different thoughts and fact patterns in a history forum? You seem to be suggesting that since my dissenting opinion is at odds with your conspiracy theories I am barred from participating. Rubbish.
They sure get mad when you disagree with them, or even dare to ask them for more information.
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Old 06-01-2020, 02:41 PM
 
Location: stuck in the woods with bears and moose
21,955 posts, read 21,058,661 times
Reputation: 38704
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
My two questions make perfect sense. Don't get angry. I am more curious on the logical deduction. So let me address a few followup questions:
  1. Why did a two-bit loser (and a cop wannabe) like Jack Ruby "have no choice". How was he compelled?
  2. In regards to JFK as the target. I understand the "enraged president" angle but then you still have RFK, who was still in the cabinet as AG until he left to be senator, and then ran for president only a few years later. So that explanation doesn't make perfect sense. He is turn was assassinated but I don't think anyone blames RFK on the mob as well. RFK was the point man in the attack on the Mafia, the teamsters, Hoffa. I understand JFK's link to the mafia but it wasn't JFK that was turning on them, that was RFK's thing (based party on a personal fued with Hoffa).
  3. Bonus question: How could the mob have relied on a .38 caliber revolver to kill Oswald with one shot to the mid-section. Such single shots are more than likely non-fatal, this one damaged some vital organs and obviously was fatal. The point being this was a big gamble by the mob, which usually prefers more reliable means (i.e. a double tap in the head) even when outsourcing a hit. At least "Vito" could have given Ruby a more powerful handgun.
  4. Edit Bonus question #2: If the theory is that someone "took out" Oswald to keep him from talking. Why didn't someone "take out" Ruby to keep him from talking? He didn't die until years later.

By the way RFK was on record as believing Oswald, and only Oswald was responsible. Decades...30 years or so, a few of his advisors came out and said RFK did have his doubts, but nevertheless RFKs statements are the only ones verified.
It's been a long time since I've read any books about it or even thought about it but I'd be interesting in the same questions. Why did Jack Ruby kill him? I do seem to remember something about Ruby wanting to talk but he claimed that he would be killed or something. I think he said he needed protection if he was going to talk--not sure of this, it's just a vague memory.

They went after JFK because he was president, the most important person. And he was probably directing RFK to go after the mob. One of them said later that they really SHOULD have gone after RFK first.

From the reliable books I've read, it was the CIA employing Oswald. Oswald was a wanna be hero so he did whatever the CIA told him to do, had no loyalty to either side. Just wanted to be famous, was gullible enough to fall for getting set up. The mob did have something to do with it though and a few certain names turn up again and again.

RFK may have thought that Oswald did it alone or maybe he just said that to be safe. If he had started naming names, they could have come after his family. His son, I believe, came out and said it was a conspiracy and that was just a few years ago. Why would any of them name names where some of these people or their associates are still living.

I'd be interested to hear more although we will probably never know for sure.
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Old 06-01-2020, 02:49 PM
 
3,445 posts, read 1,412,800 times
Reputation: 8091
From everything I have read I believe the main actors were the CIA and the Mafia. Co-conspirators included Lyndon Johnson, Clint Murchison, Allen Dulles, G.H.W. Bush, J. Edgar Hoover, Richard Nixon, Jack Ruby, Sam Giancana, Dallas police chief Jesse Curry.
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Old 06-01-2020, 03:13 PM
 
13,507 posts, read 19,619,209 times
Reputation: 22374
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
It's been a long time since I've read any books about it or even thought about it but I'd be interesting in the same questions. Why did Jack Ruby kill him? I do seem to remember something about Ruby wanting to talk but he claimed that he would be killed or something. I think he said he needed protection if he was going to talk--not sure of this, it's just a vague memory.

They went after JFK because he was president, the most important person. And he was probably directing RFK to go after the mob. One of them said later that they really SHOULD have gone after RFK first.

From the reliable books I've read, it was the CIA employing Oswald. Oswald was a wanna be hero so he did whatever the CIA told him to do, had no loyalty to either side. Just wanted to be famous, was gullible enough to fall for getting set up. The mob did have something to do with it though and a few certain names turn up again and again.

RFK may have thought that Oswald did it alone or maybe he just said that to be safe. If he had started naming names, they could have come after his family. His son, I believe, came out and said it was a conspiracy and that was just a few years ago. Why would any of them name names where some of these people or their associates are still living.

I'd be interested to hear more although we will probably never know for sure.
WIKI explains that indeed he claimed his life was in danger and wanted the Warren Commission to protect him and move him to DC (I assume, a prison in DC). Then later it says the reason he said he wanted to move to DC so he can talk to LBJ and explain that he did NOT have anything to do with a conspiracy. What that really means I am not sure - maybe he was thinking other prisoners would kill him.

Likewise the account of his experience with the mob is mixed - some accounts (conspiracy related) say he was practically a made man, others (more objective) say his involvement with organized crime was tenuous at best. More along the lines of "he knew a friend of a friend of a friend that may have mob connections." Since that is more objective, I would go with the that. Actually it seems he knew lots of cops and saw himself more of a cop wannabe and hanger-on - was pals with alot. Got them strippers and free drinks. I think that was part of his motive - this loser with no real goal in life except managing seedy nightclubs, no family, he wanted to be seen as some crusader for justice in some twisted way.
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Old 06-01-2020, 04:06 PM
 
Location: stuck in the woods with bears and moose
21,955 posts, read 21,058,661 times
Reputation: 38704
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobspez View Post
From everything I have read I believe the main actors were the CIA and the Mafia. Co-conspirators included Lyndon Johnson, Clint Murchison, Allen Dulles, G.H.W. Bush, J. Edgar Hoover, Richard Nixon, Jack Ruby, Sam Giancana, Dallas police chief Jesse Curry.
Yes, those are the names that keep coming up. CIA and the Mafia definitely. Allen Dulles--I think he was head of the CIA and JFK fired him. GHW Bush, yes, because he was Big Oil and hadn't he been head of the CIA? The Bush family = Texas Big Oil = Money. J. Edgar Hoover of the FBI hated JFK's guts. Sam Giancana--I just used to keep seeing that name, can't recall what he did though.

Nixon? Dallas police chief? LBJ? Not so sure. Didn't Nixon later do something with the gold standard? Our currency? Something that would benefit the Rich.

About all that is certain is that Big Money wanted him dead. Bankers, oil barons, people who made a fortune off wars, etc. JFK was for peace/no war, equality for all/not the rich getting richer. JFK is the direct opposite of what we have in the US today.

GHW Bush was actually part of the sham Warren Commission. His father was Prescott Bush, a very wealthy banker and politician. He was in with Rockefeller and that type. "That type" are the ones who wanted JFK dead. The super rich who control the world's banking. They need wars so they can profit--remember Bush Jr's fake Iraq War where they made up a story of Weapons of Mass Destruction? That war benefited his VP who owned Haliburton, a company that capitalized on war by making big money cleaning up afterwards. (His VP was actually running our country, not Bush Jr.)

This is just a thrown together hodgepodge of who, ultimately, was behind the assassination, an overthrow of our government. They benefited. Anyone who panders to the extremely wealthy, the bankers, can rule this country. They didn't want JFK in their way. This much is not conspiracy. I think anyone who has ever taken a look at what goes on is aware that Big Money rules.
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Old 06-01-2020, 04:18 PM
 
Location: WV and Eastport, ME
12,608 posts, read 11,867,494 times
Reputation: 8193
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
It's been a long time since I've read any books about it or even thought about it but I'd be interesting in the same questions. Why did Jack Ruby kill him? I do seem to remember something about Ruby wanting to talk but he claimed that he would be killed or something. I think he said he needed protection if he was going to talk--not sure of this, it's just a vague memory.

They went after JFK because he was president, the most important person. And he was probably directing RFK to go after the mob. One of them said later that they really SHOULD have gone after RFK first.

From the reliable books I've read, it was the CIA employing Oswald. Oswald was a wanna be hero so he did whatever the CIA told him to do, had no loyalty to either side. Just wanted to be famous, was gullible enough to fall for getting set up. The mob did have something to do with it though and a few certain names turn up again and again.

RFK may have thought that Oswald did it alone or maybe he just said that to be safe. If he had started naming names, they could have come after his family. His son, I believe, came out and said it was a conspiracy and that was just a few years ago. Why would any of them name names where some of these people or their associates are still living.

I'd be interested to hear more although we will probably never know for sure.
Jack Ruby asked Earl Warren to bring him to Washington so he could feel safe in telling what he knew. He was filmed when he said that, so it is probably on Youtube. Warren refused to do that.
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