U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 06-01-2020, 04:34 PM
 
13,693 posts, read 19,826,670 times
Reputation: 22837

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
Yes, those are the names that keep coming up. CIA and the Mafia definitely. Allen Dulles--I think he was head of the CIA and JFK fired him. GHW Bush, yes, because he was Big Oil and hadn't he been head of the CIA? The Bush family = Texas Big Oil = Money. J. Edgar Hoover of the FBI hated JFK's guts. Sam Giancana--I just used to keep seeing that name, can't recall what he did though.

Nixon? Dallas police chief? LBJ? Not so sure. Didn't Nixon later do something with the gold standard? Our currency? Something that would benefit the Rich.

About all that is certain is that Big Money wanted him dead. Bankers, oil barons, people who made a fortune off wars, etc. JFK was for peace/no war, equality for all/not the rich getting richer. JFK is the direct opposite of what we have in the US today.

GHW Bush was actually part of the sham Warren Commission. His father was Prescott Bush, a very wealthy banker and politician. He was in with Rockefeller and that type. "That type" are the ones who wanted JFK dead. The super rich who control the world's banking. They need wars so they can profit--remember Bush Jr's fake Iraq War where they made up a story of Weapons of Mass Destruction? That war benefited his VP who owned Haliburton, a company that capitalized on war by making big money cleaning up afterwards. (His VP was actually running our country, not Bush Jr.)

This is just a thrown together hodgepodge of who, ultimately, was behind the assassination, an overthrow of our government. They benefited. Anyone who panders to the extremely wealthy, the bankers, can rule this country. They didn't want JFK in their way. This much is not conspiracy. I think anyone who has ever taken a look at what goes on is aware that Big Money rules.
George HW Bush was not part of the Warren Commission, at that time in 1963 I don't think he was even a US representative. He was just entering politics at the local level. That pretty much destroys your post.
You might be confusing him with Gerald Ford. Anyways the Warren Commision was bipartisan and included two democractic senators.

I hesitate to go further as politics isn't allowed per forum rules and you were really going off topic and losing focus (can a moderator serve time in banned camp I wonder?). Sorry - I believe all forum rules should be equally enforced.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-01-2020, 04:37 PM
 
10,705 posts, read 10,351,206 times
Reputation: 34341
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobspez View Post
From everything I have read I believe the main actors were the CIA and the Mafia. Co-conspirators included Lyndon Johnson, Clint Murchison, Allen Dulles, G.H.W. Bush, J. Edgar Hoover, Richard Nixon, Jack Ruby, Sam Giancana, Dallas police chief Jesse Curry.
Who do you think wasn't involved, Bob?

You just named the man who became president, a Texas millionaire, the Director of the CIA, a man who would become president of the United States, the FBI Director, the former Vice President of the US who would become President and the chief of the Dallas Police Department. Do you seriously want us to believe that all these men were not only part of a conspiracy to kill the President, but that it was all successfully kept from the American people despite the Warren Commission and the House Assassinations Committee in 1975?

Do you realize how ludicrous this all sounds to people who don't think and dream about conspiracies all day long?

Never mind. I'm sure you never listen to any contrary information.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2020, 04:46 PM
 
13,693 posts, read 19,826,670 times
Reputation: 22837
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Who do you think wasn't involved, Bob?

You just named the man who became president, a Texas millionaire, the Director of the CIA, a man who would become president of the United States, the FBI Director, the former Vice President of the US who would become President and the chief of the Dallas Police Department. Do you seriously want us to believe that all these men were not only part of a conspiracy to kill the President, but that it was all successfully kept from the American people despite the Warren Commission and the House Assassinations Committee in 1975?

Do you realize how ludicrous this all sounds to people who don't think and dream about conspiracies all day long?

Never mind. I'm sure you never listen to any contrary information.
Current Attorney General Willam Barr was also involved!
Well, he was only 13 years old, but I tell you he was involved.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2020, 05:02 PM
 
5,096 posts, read 2,363,893 times
Reputation: 4948
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
My two questions make perfect sense. Don't get angry. I am more curious on the logical deduction. So let me address a few followup questions:
  1. Why did a two-bit loser (and a cop wannabe) like Jack Ruby "have no choice". How was he compelled?
  2. In regards to JFK as the target. I understand the "enraged president" angle but then you still have RFK, who was still in the cabinet as AG until he left to be senator, and then ran for president only a few years later. So that explanation doesn't make perfect sense. He is turn was assassinated but I don't think anyone blames RFK on the mob as well. RFK was the point man in the attack on the Mafia, the teamsters, Hoffa. I understand JFK's link to the mafia but it wasn't JFK that was turning on them, that was RFK's thing (based party on a personal fued with Hoffa).
  3. Bonus question: How could the mob have relied on a .38 caliber revolver to kill Oswald with one shot to the mid-section. Such single shots are more than likely non-fatal, this one damaged some vital organs and obviously was fatal. The point being this was a big gamble by the mob, which usually prefers more reliable means (i.e. a double tap in the head) even when outsourcing a hit. At least "Vito" could have given Ruby a more powerful handgun.
  4. Edit Bonus question #2: If the theory is that someone "took out" Oswald to keep him from talking. Why didn't someone "take out" Ruby to keep him from talking? He didn't die until years later.

By the way RFK was on record as believing Oswald, and only Oswald was responsible. Decades...30 years or so, a few of his advisors came out and said RFK did have his doubts, but nevertheless RFKs statements are the only ones verified.
It would not be possible for me to get angry in this discussion because I really don't care enough about who did it and have said already that we'll never know anyway.

1. Ruby had a history with the Chicago Outfit going back to the 1940's. He was not patriotic and did anything for money. He was also running guns to Cuba, apparently entire boats full.

You can call him a two bit loser, but he was fairly successful at what he did. As far as having no choice and how would he be compelled--another dumb question. Golly gosh how would the mafia compel a long time associate to do something?

As for the cop wannabe, cops and organized crime in that period went together like fingers and gloves. Nobody who knew Ruby believed he was patriotic in any way. The rest of this I already answered, as to old man Kennedy cutting a deal with Giancana to help him with the five families in NY.

2. .38 had long been one of their preferred weapons for hits. And Ruby said he meant to shoot him 3 times. And as said Ruby was a mob associate and running guns to Cuba, so it's unlikely "Vito" supplied him with anything.

Bonus question 2: because they trusted him to keep his mouth shut.

Bonus statement: someone called the police station and said they knew the route they were planning to move Oswald through and unless it was changed, he'd be killed. Voice later identified by as Ruby's. Why would he do that? To get out of killing Oswald.

Are you familiar with the mafia at all?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2020, 07:11 PM
 
13,693 posts, read 19,826,670 times
Reputation: 22837
Quote:
Originally Posted by madison999 View Post
It would not be possible for me to get angry in this discussion because I really don't care enough about who did it and have said already that we'll never know anyway.

1. Ruby had a history with the Chicago Outfit going back to the 1940's. He was not patriotic and did anything for money. He was also running guns to Cuba, apparently entire boats full.

You can call him a two bit loser, but he was fairly successful at what he did. As far as having no choice and how would he be compelled--another dumb question. Golly gosh how would the mafia compel a long time associate to do something?

As for the cop wannabe, cops and organized crime in that period went together like fingers and gloves. Nobody who knew Ruby believed he was patriotic in any way. The rest of this I already answered, as to old man Kennedy cutting a deal with Giancana to help him with the five families in NY.

2. .38 had long been one of their preferred weapons for hits. And Ruby said he meant to shoot him 3 times. And as said Ruby was a mob associate and running guns to Cuba, so it's unlikely "Vito" supplied him with anything.

Bonus question 2: because they trusted him to keep his mouth shut.

Bonus statement: someone called the police station and said they knew the route they were planning to move Oswald through and unless it was changed, he'd be killed. Voice later identified by as Ruby's. Why would he do that? To get out of killing Oswald.

Are you familiar with the mafia at all?
I know you are somewhat spiteful in your answers, but thanks for the response. Keep calm, no one is attacking you or your theories.
So still some followup questions. If one was familiar with the Mafia one would know they are an Italian organization. Ruby was jewish. His ties with organized crime I, again, understand to be tenuous. People like you that hold to this theory say he was connected, others say he wasn't. What source is more objective? So we are stuck in the middle and I don't wish to get into this "he said, she said" discussion. It goes nowhere.

So let me get into the logic discussions again:
  1. question 1 - You failed to answer why he was "compelled" except to claim some loyalty to a criminal organization to commit such a blantant crime that it would certainly result in either a death on the spot, a death sentence in the courts, or life in prison. The Mafia button men don't engage in suicide missions. Gosh golly, excuse me if I don't understand that logic.
  2. question 2 - Kennedy and Giancana. OK so you are saying Kennedy reneged on a deal. So the motive was revenge. OK I can sort of see that, IF he was a fellow mobster. But this was the president of the US. Their has to be something more to commit such a risky act as detection would certainly result in the destruction of the mafia. Still doesn't make sense.
  3. bonus question 1 - Understood he meant to fire 3 times, indicating premeditation. But again that doesn't makes sense when you consider no way he could have gotten 3 shots off with a room full of policemen present. OK he wasn't that smart, understood, then why would the mob rely on such a unreliable source? .38 special a prefered mob weapon? You made that up didn't you? Come on, admit it.
  4. bonus question 2 - Ruby trusted to keep his mouth shut. Why? See we are going in circles here, why didn't they just hire a person that they "trusted to keep his mouth shut" in the first place to kill JFK? Once again - doesn't make sense.

OK followup questions again on your bonus statement which has me perplexed - why would Ruby call the police department to tell them to change Oswald's route when he intended to kill him in the first place. How would that have helped him get out of a charge of killing Oswald? It actually suggests just the opposite, that it was premeditated. So, I know I sound like a broken record here - but that again does not make sense.

Last edited by Dd714; 06-01-2020 at 07:20 PM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2020, 07:38 PM
 
3,696 posts, read 1,506,951 times
Reputation: 8548
Actually, the idea that GHW Bush was not in the CIA at the time of the JFK assassination destroys your post. One of his missions in the early 60's was to organize transport of supplies to those training for the attack on the Bay of Pigs. That was a CIA operation and the ship he used was named The Barbara. His oil business was used a cover for his CIA activities. (He's also the only person in the country who claimed he was unable to remember where he was at the time of the JFK assassination.)

"Bush would serve for a year as the director of the Central Intelligence Agency in the mid-1970s, but, as Joseph McBride reported in The Nation in 1988, his involvement with the agency had started much earlier. In November 1963, shortly after the assassination of John F. Kennedy, FBI director J. Edgar Hoover wrote a memo to the State Department describing the briefing of “Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency” on the reaction to the assassination by anti-Castro Cuban exiles in Miami (it was feared by some that the exiles might take advantage of the chaotic situation by initiating an unauthorized raid against Cuba). McBride also cited a source with close connection to the intelligence community who confirmed that, as McBride put it, “Bush started working for the agency in 1960 or 1961, using his oil business as a cover for clandestine activities.”

https://www.thenation.com/article/ar...e-third-world/

Your statement that the Warren Commission was bi-parisan is correct. The JFK assassination was a bi-partisan coup d' etat.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
George HW Bush was not part of the Warren Commission, at that time in 1963 I don't think he was even a US representative. He was just entering politics at the local level. That pretty much destroys your post.
You might be confusing him with Gerald Ford. Anyways the Warren Commision was bipartisan and included two democractic senators.

I hesitate to go further as politics isn't allowed per forum rules and you were really going off topic and losing focus (can a moderator serve time in banned camp I wonder?). Sorry - I believe all forum rules should be equally enforced.

Last edited by bobspez; 06-01-2020 at 07:49 PM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2020, 07:45 PM
 
3,696 posts, read 1,506,951 times
Reputation: 8548
Unfortunately Mark, you have accepted the Warren Commission conspiracy theory which was pure fiction. The involvement of all those people is historical fact and has been documented many times by anyone who has researched the JFK assassination and politics of the US since WWII. To those with knowledge of this history you sound absolutely ludicrous. But to quote you "Never mind. I'm sure you never listen to any contrary information."



Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Who do you think wasn't involved, Bob?

You just named the man who became president, a Texas millionaire, the Director of the CIA, a man who would become president of the United States, the FBI Director, the former Vice President of the US who would become President and the chief of the Dallas Police Department. Do you seriously want us to believe that all these men were not only part of a conspiracy to kill the President, but that it was all successfully kept from the American people despite the Warren Commission and the House Assassinations Committee in 1975?

Do you realize how ludicrous this all sounds to people who don't think and dream about conspiracies all day long?

Never mind. I'm sure you never listen to any contrary information.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2020, 07:47 PM
 
3,696 posts, read 1,506,951 times
Reputation: 8548
A comment that aptly expresses your level of interest in the topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Current Attorney General Willam Barr was also involved!
Well, he was only 13 years old, but I tell you he was involved.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2020, 10:50 PM
 
Location: stuck in the woods with bears and moose
22,353 posts, read 21,432,895 times
Reputation: 39704
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobspez View Post
Unfortunately Mark, you have accepted the Warren Commission conspiracy theory which was pure fiction. The involvement of all those people is historical fact and has been documented many times by anyone who has researched the JFK assassination and politics of the US since WWII. To those with knowledge of this history you sound absolutely ludicrous. But to quote you "Never mind. I'm sure you never listen to any contrary information."
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobspez View Post
A comment that aptly expresses your level of interest in the topic.

It's good to see some accurate information in this thread as opposed to some of the childishness and the closed minded opinions of people who probably haven't read the most reputable books and given the issue some thought.

As I already said, my posts can be like an unorganized hodgepodge because time has faded my memories. But what you're saying is the truth, as I know it, as much as we can possibly know. Please keep lending your expertise and ignore those who act like 12 year olds. Some of us are genuinely interested.
__________________
my posts as moderator will be in red. Moderator: Health&Wellness~Genealogy. The Rules--read here>>> TOS. If someone attacks you, do not reply. Hit REPORT.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-02-2020, 07:10 AM
 
13,693 posts, read 19,826,670 times
Reputation: 22837
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobspez View Post
A comment that aptly expresses your level of interest in the topic.
How's that?
I have several threads here trying to understand the logical connections.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:49 AM.

© 2005-2020, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top