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Old 06-02-2020, 12:32 PM
 
3,186 posts, read 3,024,874 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ciceropolo View Post
If you mean the trigger pullers, probably:
Charles Harrelson
James Sutton Files
Charles Nicoletti
Malcolm Wallace

if you mean the 'conductors' you'd have to understand how the intelligence apparatus functioned and who had the ability to control / orchestrate at highest levels (James J. Angleton, Richard Bissell, Charles Cabell, Allen Dulles, Richard Helms). Sort of like assembling all the players at Dealey plaza like the 'passenger' list on the Orient Express in Agatha Christie's Murder on the Orient Express.

Most of the 'loose ends' not cleaned up in the immediate aftermath of Dallas from Kennedy's assassination were eliminated before the Church Committee (1975) could talk to them. Lots of convenient deaths / accidents etc... a hallmark of the spook trade.

Lot of people with various political interests and familial bad blood (father Joseph Kennedy's dealing with mafia, from various illegal activities (bootlegging in prohibition, prostitution, drugs) and their helping get his son elected and then having them 'turn' on them by investigating their activities (RFK as attorney general) wanted JFK (based on his policies) dead. The CIA wanted him dead after the Bay of Pigs Anti Cuban fiasco and his notorious quote about wanting to break it up into a thousand pieces.

The military industrial complex Eisenhower spoke of had vested interest in continuing conflicts and escalating armament manufacturing 'military actions' (Vietnam); the Dixie mafia: Marcello, Trafficante, (note there was a threat to JFK in Tampa about a month before Dallas trip) Israel was going nuclear with the Dimona Reactor and JFK wanted to negate that, the Fed etc.. oh and recently noted the Mayor of Dallas Cabell was CIA asset. Who had the ability to alter presidential motorcade route? [Easily deployed as Dallas Police.]
https://whowhatwhy.org/2017/08/02/da...ion-cia-asset/


There will always be a group of people who accept the government narrative but the Nicholas Katzenbach memo written almost immediately after the assassination spells out the narrative those in charge wanted to propagate.
https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Katzenbach_Memo.html

No all encompassing thorough investigation, but rather a 'filtered' and planned investigation and controlled release and prompt conclusion (nothing to see here move along) .


Here's some good content to prove that others were involved. So, yes it is a conspiracy - what LHO role was - well I tend to believe he was what he stated he was - "a patsy". Especially, since the cleaning crew (Jack Ruby/Rubinstein) immediately ended any possibility of him talking as well as many other key kill zone area witnesses in the next few years.

Then anyone who continued investigating independently like Dorothy Kilgallen (she spoke with Jack Ruby/ Rubinstein) and what happened that day and the connections between people in charge of the investigation conveniently was killed and their 'work' confiscated and never found. Or the collateral victims like Mary Pinchot Meyer (Cord Meyer's wife who was one of JFK's lovers).




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQdnAcCbXI



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-_06iHdM3A


Overall the JFK assassination is a great study in how to keep the masses confused / conflicted and an investigation 'politically' bottled up, so that they never ask the difficult questions because if they ask difficult questions they may not like the answer and then might begin questioning who and how things are run in the higher echelons of government. Even the politicians who didn't believe the story line - like the single bullet - conveniently died like Hale Boggs one of the Warren Commission panel members.



Read the Katzenbach memo put out immediately after the assassination and ask yourself honestly if the law enforcement agencies of the day had any intent to find out what happened on November 22, 1963?


Look at research into the chain of custody of the body. Look into Jim Garrison's investigation of the prior connections between parties involved and the eyewitness testimony of those in the attached video and it is clear the government investigation via warren commission was a farce to wrap things neatly up for the American public.



When a thorough investigation via the Church Committee in 1975 was convened another round of deaths befell parties of interest. Except for a few like in the video, the 'cleaning crew' did a good job.
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Old 06-02-2020, 12:41 PM
 
3,444 posts, read 1,412,800 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by llowllevellowll View Post
With the mounting evidence now against this viewpoint, the real conspiracy theory is actually believing that LHO did it by himself.

But, sadly, you've got your truth and you're not debating any of the evidence! Case closed!

Just your words, not anyone with any credibility, there is no mounting evidence that LHO was the assassin unless you count that old Popular Mechanics piece about debunking the JFK assassination theories. The case is closed for you, complete with a emoji and an exclamation point. That's good. It was closed for the Warren Commission in 1964. Not for anyone else who questioned those conclusions.
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Old 06-02-2020, 12:48 PM
 
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As was stated, he was a co conspirator and was an operative in the CIA who was engaged in the planning of the Bay of Pigs invasion, and was conveniently the only man in America who claimed he didn't remember where he was when JFK was assassinated. He was in Texas, so was Nixon, so were all of the other people I named as co-conspirators. He was identified by J Edgar Hoover as CIA operative George Bush in a memo written right after the assassination.You seem to be trying your hardest to derail and ignore the discussion points already presented, not trying to understand any connections, while promoting the lone wolf assassin nonsense that has been discredited for generations. I wonder why?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
How does it destroy my post?
The statement by the one poster was simple "GHW Bush was part of the Warren Commission", before it started to get into the outer limits of discussion (Iraq War, Halliburton, etc).
The answer is also simple - he was not.
Period.

In 1963 he was just entering politics, decorated military veteran, and successful businessman. So are you suggesting a new theory? - GHW Bush assassinated JFK? Does this factor into the "mob killed JFK" theory or the "CIA killed JFK" theory. Just trying to understand the connections here.
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Old 06-02-2020, 01:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobspez View Post
As was stated, he was a co conspirator and was an operative in the CIA who was engaged in the planning of the Bay of Pigs invasion, and was conveniently the only man in America who claimed he didn't remember where he was when JFK was assassinated. He was in Texas, so was Nixon, so were all of the other people I named as co-conspirators. You seem to be trying your hardest to derail the discussion points already presented, not trying to understand any connections, while promoting the lone wolf assassin nonsense that has been discredited for generations. I wonder why?
But the fact that they were both in Texas is not exactly proof of a conspiracy. So were 10 million other Americans. And Bush in CIA at the time...OK say he was, but why would he then want to assassinate JFK? JFK was the one who approved the Bay of Pigs operation. I mean, everything with Cuba at the time - failed assasination attempts, intrigue, etc. - Kennedy was aware of, RFK as well. RFK even OK'd using Mafia resources. They both loved this stuff.

Actually, if anything, JFK's assasination ended CIA's "cloak and dagger" operations era. CIA lost alot of power. It was LBJ that told them to knock it off. And Bush was brought in actually, in the mid-70s because of this nonsense that the Kennedy's and the CIA did in the early 60s as that's when all this stuff started to come to the surface.

On that note, what's your take on the Mafia angle and motive?
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Old 06-02-2020, 01:13 PM
 
1,477 posts, read 2,266,544 times
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What did you/do you think of this five-rear-old Politico article or Shenon's book?

https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...igators-114812

Excerpts -

"Slawson theorizes that that attorney general and the CIA worked together to hide information about Oswald’s Mexico trip from the commission because they feared that the investigation might stumble onto the fact that JFK’s administration had been trying, for years, sometimes with the help of the Mafia, to assassinate Castro. Mexico had been a staging area for the Castro plots. Public disclosure of the plots, Slawson says, could have derailed, if not destroyed, Robert Kennedy’s political career; he had led his brother’s secret war against Castro and, as declassified documents would later show, was well aware of the Mafia’s involvement in the CIA’s often harebrained schemes to murder the Cuban dictator. “You can’t distinguish between Bobby and the CIA on this,” Slawson says. “They were working hand in glove to hide information from us.”



"The theory that a conspiracy to kill JFK was hatched in Mexico is not new. Commission records show that during the course of the investigation, another former commission staffer, David Belin, who died in 1999, also suspected that Oswald had accomplices in Mexico and that they may have been waiting on the Mexican border after the assassination to help Oswald escape. Still, Slawson is the first surviving commission staffer to suggest the conspiracy in such a public fashion, and his credibility is obviously enhanced by the fact that he was the commission’s chief conspiracy-hunter."
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Old 06-02-2020, 01:16 PM
 
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I could have predicted your response almost to the word. There were lots of people in Texas...that doesn't prove... Don't you recall JFK caused the Bay of Pigs invasion to fail because he withdrew air support? Don't you recall he back channeled with Khrushchev to deescalate the stand off. Don't you recall he was pissed at the CIA because of their involvement with the death off Patrice Lumumba in the Congo, that he was doing his best to break up the old boy CIA network starting with firing Allen Dulles. How many relevant facts don't you know or are ignoring here, talking about mafia angles?
Do you really believe Bush became director of the CIA without participating for years as an agent? Do you believe ousted Chief Allen Douglas was at CIA headquarters during the assassination for no reason? Do you really believe criminal actors in the CIA didn't use criminal actors in the mafia with a common goal of eliminating JFK? You are just looking to avoid or deflate the truth of who was in charge of American foreign and domestic policy, who profited and why. It's not real complicated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
But the fact that they were both in Texas is not exactly proof of a conspiracy. So were 10 million other Americans. And Bush in CIA at the time...OK say he was, but why would he then want to assassinate JFK? JFK was the one who approved the Bay of Pigs operation. I mean, everything with Cuba at the time - failed assasination attempts, intrigue, etc. - Kennedy was aware of, RFK as well. RFK even OK'd using Mafia resources. They both loved this stuff.

Actually, if anything, JFK's assasination ended CIA's "cloak and dagger" operations. And Bush was brought in actually, in the mid-70s because of this nonsense they were doing in the early 60s.

On that note, what's your take on the Mafia angle and motive?
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Old 06-02-2020, 01:33 PM
 
13,507 posts, read 19,619,209 times
Reputation: 22374
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobspez View Post
I could have predicted your response almost to the word. There were lots of people in Texas...that doesn't prove...
Do you really believe Bush became director of the CIA without participating for years as an agent? Do you believe ousted Chief Alan Douglas was at CIA headquarters during the assassination for no reason? Do you really believe criminal actors in the CIA didn't use criminal actors in the mafia with a common goal of eliminating JFK? You are just looking to avoid or deflate the truth of who was in charge of American foreign and domestic policy, who profited and why. It's not real complicated.
I am asking for a motive, I already extended the "olive branch" to you of entertaining the theory that Bush was part of CIA. I don't necessarily believe it, but I am willing to entertain that.
Once again:
  1. What would be the CIA's motive for killing JFK, realizing that the outcome would have (and did) ended it's cloak and dagger operations against Cuba, or, if you will, the "military-industrial complex". Seems JFK and his family if anything were part of that same complex.
  2. Why would the CIA work with the Mafia to kill JFK - one goal was eliminating Castro so the Mafia would get Cuba back to operate it's casinos. CIA worked with them - OK I get that and acknowleged that. But why then would the Mafia then want to eliminate JFK who was actually actively working to get Cuba back and topple Castro.

EDIT: Ok I see you added a point about Kennedy's abadonment of Bay of Pigs, which I agree with, as a motive. But the assasination attempts continued with Kennedy support all the way through late 1963 (that might be subject to some argument, but "Operation Mongoose" the covert operation against Castro's Cuba, is on record as ending in late 1963). Then it ended after Kennedy assasination (i.e. LBJ telling them to "knock it off").

Last edited by Dd714; 06-02-2020 at 02:23 PM..
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Old 06-02-2020, 02:30 PM
 
3,444 posts, read 1,412,800 times
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The military industrial complex wanted a war in Vietnam which Kennedy was stopping and which LBJ expanded. The Military industrial complex got their way with Ike, expanding the nuclear arsenal to 16,000 nukes including delivery systems, missiles, planes, bases, etc. at taxpayer expense. After getting all they could out of that they got a 10 year payday with Vietnam at taxpayer's expense. There's nothing more profitable than a war for the military industrial complex which includes all the manufacturers of planes, missiles, armaments, boats, helicopters, bombs and ammunition and building of bases and airstrips that gets used up in a war, plus all the oil for aviation fuel, diesel and gasoline. Kennedy was taking away their power and stopping the war. After aborting the Bay of Pigs invasion and back channeling with Khrushchev to end the standoff, they saw him as an obstacle. He wasn't going to accomplish a regime change in Cuba. The mafia wasn't going back to Havana. RFK was actively looking to bring down the mafia. Two weeks before the assassination, the CIA participated in removing Diem from office in Vietnam. They were gearing up for the war, getting their pick of leaders in control of the country. Same scenario in Afghanistan, and Iraq. Same playbook as Johnson used (Weapons of mass destruction replaced fake Gulf of Tonkin incident). 15 year payday for the military industrial complex to date.
I've answered your questions but don't think it will change your mind one iota. Let's stop wasting each others' time. There's really nothing else to say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Once again, calm down guys. Be civil. You answered exactly ZERO of my questions. I am asking for a motive, I already extended the "olive branch" to you of entertaining the theory that Bush was part of CIA. I don't necessarily believe it, but I am willing to entertain that.
Once again:
  1. What would be the CIA's motive for killing JFK, realizing that the outcome would have (and did) ended it's cloak and dagger operations against Cuba.
  2. Why would the CIA work with the Mafia to kill JFK - one goal was eliminating Castro so the Mafia would get Cuba back to operate it's casinos. CIA worked with them - OK I get that and acknowleged that. But why then would the Mafia then want to eliminate JFK who was actually actively working to get Cuba back and topple Castro.

EDIT: Ok I see you added a point about Kennedy's abadonment of Bay of Pigs, which I agree with, as a motive. But the assasination attempts continued with Kennedy support all the way through late 1963 (that might be subject to some argument, but "Operation Mongoose" the covert operation against Castro's Cuba, is on record as ending in late 1963). Then it ended after Kennedy assasination (i.e. LBJ telling them to "knock it off").

Last edited by bobspez; 06-02-2020 at 02:41 PM..
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Old 06-02-2020, 03:38 PM
 
13,507 posts, read 19,619,209 times
Reputation: 22374
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobspez View Post
The military industrial complex wanted a war in Vietnam which Kennedy was stopping and which LBJ expanded. The Military industrial complex got their way with Ike, expanding the nuclear arsenal to 16,000 nukes including delivery systems, missiles, planes, bases, etc. at taxpayer expense. After getting all they could out of that they got a 10 year payday with Vietnam at taxpayer's expense. There's nothing more profitable than a war for the military industrial complex which includes all the manufacturers of planes, missiles, armaments, boats, helicopters, bombs and ammunition and building of bases and airstrips that gets used up in a war, plus all the oil for aviation fuel, diesel and gasoline. Kennedy was taking away their power and stopping the war. After aborting the Bay of Pigs invasion and back channeling with Khrushchev to end the standoff, they saw him as an obstacle. He wasn't going to accomplish a regime change in Cuba. The mafia wasn't going back to Havana. RFK was actively looking to bring down the mafia. Two weeks before the assassination, the CIA participated in removing Diem from office in Vietnam. They were gearing up for the war, getting their pick of leaders in control of the country. Same scenario in Afghanistan, and Iraq. Same playbook as Johnson used (Weapons of mass destruction replaced fake Gulf of Tonkin incident). 15 year payday for the military industrial complex to date.
I've answered your questions but don't think it will change your mind one iota. Let's stop wasting each others' time. There's really nothing else to say.
I appreciate the detailed response even if I don't agree and Kennedy's future direction regarding Vietnam is something that historians still do not have a consensus on - would he have escalated as Johnson did or descalate? Depends who you ask.
Regardless, your thread is not a waste of time, this is open to everyone to read and comment further. It's all cool.
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Old 06-02-2020, 03:39 PM
 
3,444 posts, read 1,412,800 times
Reputation: 8091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
I appreciate the detailed response even if I don't agree and Kennedy's future direction regarding Vietnam is something that historians still do not have a consensus on - would he have escalated as Johnson did or descalate? Depends who you ask.
Regardless, your thread is not a waste of time, this is open to everyone to read and comment further. It's all cool.
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