Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I wonder what the Director's historical perspective will be on this?
I personally believed that Hitler was not prepared to kill or try to capture 400,000 English/French troops when he was hoping to make peace to avoid a long war.
I'm looking forward to it. The Brits have a long grand tradition of having to stage a disaster before eventually triumphing. Before Rorke's Drift there was Isandlwana, before Omdurman there was Khartoum, before taking control of American waters in the 1812 War, first they had to lose three frigates in ship to ship fights. before sinking the Bismark, they lost the Hood.
Dunkirk was actually a disaster, Britain fleeing across the channel to save their lives, but I suppose it counts as a triumph in British minds because it followed the disaster on the continent.
I've been interested in the evacuation at Dunkirk for a long time, so I'm eagerly anticipating this movie. I just hope it'll be at least reasonably historically accurate.
I'm especially looking forward to the scene where the leader of the British army raises his hands to Heaven, and God parts the English Channel and allows His people to cross back to England on dry land . . . and then closes the water over the Nazi forces chasing them. (Or am I thinking of a different movie about a group of people caught between a large body of water and a pursuing army? )
Dunkirk was actually a disaster, Britain fleeing across the channel to save their lives, but I suppose it counts as a triumph in British minds because it followed the disaster on the continent.
I respectfully disagree. Dunkirk COULD have been a disaster. Indeed, if the Germans had been more tenacious (what a stroke of luck for the good guys, that their enemy halted their armor just a few miles from the beaches!), it WOULD have been a disaster. But instead, nearly the entirety of the British Expeditionary Force was snatched away from what should have been capture or even annihilation and made it home, where they could be rested, regrouped, and readied to fight again.
I truly believe that Dunkirk was nothing less than a miracle of deliverance -- and, in the context of what it SHOULD have been, an astonishing victory.
I respectfully disagree. Dunkirk COULD have been a disaster. Indeed, if the Germans had been more tenacious (what a stroke of luck for the good guys, that their enemy halted their armor just a few miles from the beaches!), it WOULD have been a disaster. But instead, nearly the entirety of the British Expeditionary Force was snatched away from what should have been capture or even annihilation and made it home, where they could be rested, regrouped, and readied to fight again.
I truly believe that Dunkirk was nothing less than a miracle of deliverance -- and, in the context of what it SHOULD have been, an astonishing victory.
I think the above is something of an illusion, brought about by the fact that the evacuation was by sea. Had this been a battle involving just land, it would have been the badly defeated British army having to abandon most of their equipment in their haste to escape from the enemy. That it was less of a disaster than it could have been thanks to the heroics of the seamen, does not alter the fact that it was a disaster in arms.
I'm looking forward to it. The Brits have a long grand tradition of having to stage a disaster before eventually triumphing. Before Rorke's Drift there was Isandlwana, before Omdurman there was Khartoum, before taking control of American waters in the 1812 War, first they had to lose three frigates in ship to ship fights. before sinking the Bismark, they lost the Hood.
Dunkirk was actually a disaster, Britain fleeing across the channel to save their lives, but I suppose it counts as a triumph in British minds because it followed the disaster on the continent.
Taking the American waters in war of 1812 was a triumph?
It's a war nobody won right? And they had already lost the colonies. Isn't that kind of like someone steals your entire lunch and then you go take two potato chips back and call it a triumph?
Taking the American waters in war of 1812 was a triumph?
It's a war nobody won right? And they had already lost the colonies. Isn't that kind of like someone steals your entire lunch and then you go take two potato chips back and call it a triumph?
The reputation of the Royal Navy was on the line. They were the Big Bad Boys of the oceans and they kept getting bloody noses in the early going. Blockading the upstart American frigates in ports and re-establishing control of the coastal waters was the required restorative. The HMS Shannon besting Lawrence and the USS Chesapeake was a much needed morale boost.
While on the subject of extracting moral victories from actual defeats, the US Navy adopted as its official motto, the words spoken by Lawrence when he was mortally wounded. "Don't Give Up the Ship!"
It was actually an insane order, his ship had been overwhelmed by firepower and was about to be boarded, he meant for his crew to all die fighting?
And in any event, shortly after Lawrence was carried below decks, the British boarded and the forced the crew to surrender.
And if all that wasn't bad enough, Lawrence was engaging the Shannon in response to a taunting challenge sent to him by the Shannon's commander, inviting him to leave the shelter of the harbor and meet in an open sea duel. The Navy Dept. had issued orders for all American frigate commanders to preserve their ships and not sail out for combat with blockading squadron ships. There is some question as to whether Lawrence was or wasn't aware of these orders, but he certainly was rather easily baited.
From this defeat we get the official navy motto?
Last edited by Grandstander; 12-15-2016 at 06:00 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
)
