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I have American Indian ancestry but there comes a time when you have to admit facts. American Indians were savages that were not the sweet people so many want to make them out to be. There were peaceful tribes and warrior tribes.
The issue is whether the tribes forced over the Trail of Tears were peaceful or savage. If they were honoring treaties and the white folk weren't it would be a far bigger bot than if the tribes were constantly stirring the pot, the way say Palestinians do in the Middle East or Al Quaeda/ISIS does with the West.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCN
I recently saw a documentary about the "Lost Colony" and the idea that the colony was overrun by Indians and some of the people lived as slaves to the Indians and were taken to Copper mines to beat out the copper. People from Jamestown were thought to know where these people were but did not have the necessary numbers to go and rescue them.
It depends on the indigenous group really. Some indigenous nations were in fact angelic (at least as much as you can call a country angelic), and some of course were very very not angelic, like the Aztecs. From what I read the indigenous groups living in Hispaniola and Jamaica were very friendly and peaceful, and as we all know the conquistadors ruthlessly raped and kill them. What happened to the tainos was a genocide
After this statement you seem to switch to agreeing with the OP, to the effect that there was nothing perfect about pre-contact life in the Americas. A look at the cenotes in Mayan Mexico tells you all you need to know.
Given their decimation by diseases I am guessing you're right. Smallpox was an equal opportunity killer and killed the wiser and smarter as well as less gifted.
I agree that our evidence is pauce by we do have both viewing and remains from Aztecs, Mayas, Incas and Cahokia. On all but Cahokia we have pretty good oral histories. These were not peaceful or noble societies.
Humans everywhere were and are a keystone species. That's a fact, neither good nor bad. They helped shape the environment. Even then they may have had a hand in the extinction of woolly mammoths, and the populations explosions and later crashes of bison and passenger pigeon populations.
I think disease did most of the damage.The remaining natives were desperate and largely leaderless. The natives may have been better at coexisting if their leadership weren't shredded by disease.
I don't know if that was "racism" or a recognition that the two could not coexist with status quo cultures. The Europeans' view was it was their culture that was going to prevail.
I do not agree with the OP, but I also do not hold that the pre-contact Americas was peopled by Noble Savages. We can only reason by analogy the effect of disease on the Americas. The Plague killed about one-third of Europe and doubtless restructured those societies in ways that are still challenging for us to tease apart from other factors.
Estimates vary, but most scholars agree that the series of epidemics spread through the Columbian exchange were much more deadly than the Plague in Europe. There is a hypothesis that the mass deaths in the Americas caused the Little Ice Age, because American forests and jungles grew uninterrupted by the peoples that cultivated them with fire, creating a massive carbon sink.
The passenger pigeon was destroyed primarily by habitat loss--deforestation in the 19th century. It's not clear from your post, but neither the passenger pigeon nor the bison disruptions were driven by the native people of the Americas.
It is no longer questionable that disease did the most damage to the people of the Americas. Read some 16th, 17th, and 18th century texts if you don't know if racism was a factor in European colonial ideology.
It is no longer questionable that disease did the most damage to the people of the Americas. Read some 16th, 17th, and 18th century texts if you don't know if racism was a factor in European colonial ideology.
I am quite sure there was lots of racism. I doubt it had much impact other than a few episodes such as the Trail of Tears.
The issue is whether the tribes forced over the Trail of Tears were peaceful or savage. If they were honoring treaties and the white folk weren't it would be a far bigger bot than if the tribes were constantly stirring the pot, the way say Palestinians do in the Middle East or Al Quaeda/ISIS does with the West.
Weren't the "Lost Colonies" long gone by 1607?
Not according to this historical program. The people doing the documentary used many different avenues to prove the connection from the copper mines on the NC/VA border to the message left on a rock at the end of the river as it went into the sound on the coast. 1584 to when the girl slave left her message until 1607 is not that great a time, only 23 years. The researchers used satellite images to search for copper mines mentioned by some in Jamestown. Then it was matched up with the rock with the note's DNA to the copper mine where the approximately 6 survivors from the colony had been seen working. That there were other people who wore clothes like the Jamestown people seemed to be common knowledge.
The Jamestown settlement was a little later than 1607 but still not so far forward that some from the lost colony may have still been alive.
Not according to this historical program. The people doing the documentary used many different avenues to prove the connection from the copper mines on the NC/VA border to the message left on a rock at the end of the river as it went into the sound on the coast. 1584 to when the girl slave left her message until 1607 is not that great a time, only 23 years. The researchers used satellite images to search for copper mines mentioned by some in Jamestown. Then it was matched up with the rock with the note's DNA to the copper mine where the approximately 6 survivors from the colony had been seen working.
Remember though, under pre-Colonial conditions that's still a long time.
Remember though, under pre-Colonial conditions that's still a long time.
The historians proved differently. A rock is not going to jump from the Virginia border in a copper mine to the location near the lost colony and have its DNA totally match the mine without human help. How many of the Indians knew to engrave rocks in the English language?
I have American Indian ancestry but there comes a time when you have to admit facts. American Indians were savages that were not the sweet people so many want to make them out to be. There were peaceful tribes and warrior tribes.
I recently saw a documentary about the "Lost Colony" and the idea that the colony was overrun by Indians and some of the people lived as slaves to the Indians and were taken to Copper mines to beat out the copper. People from Jamestown were thought to know where these people were but did not have the necessary numbers to go and rescue them.
What has that got to do with anything I wrote? I simply asked which marches were multiple thousands of miles.
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