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Old 10-31-2019, 06:32 AM
 
Location: The North Star State
2,925 posts, read 897,343 times
Reputation: 12376

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Quote:
Originally Posted by stank1964 View Post
Just because we have never been told that WMD were found in Iraq, doesn’t mean that they didn’t exist or that Bush lied to us about it. Saddam was executed for using WMD on his own people so.... there is no doubt that WMD were definitely there.


Saddam Hussein used WMD extensively during the Iran-Iraq War (1980-88), both against Iranian troops and against his own people.

However, you are conflating two issues. The Iraq War of 2003 was not predicated on the fact that Iraq had once (in the 1980s) possessed chemical weapons. It was based on the idea that Iraq in 2003 possessed, and I quote, 'vast stockpiles' of WMD. It was based on bogus (as understood pre-war by U.S. intelligence) reports that Iraq had tried to purchase uranium yellowcake from Niger. It was based on bogus 'mobile bioweapons labs' that were, in fact, British-built hydrogen generators that had no utility whatsoever in making biological weapons. It was based on bogus claims that certain aluminum tubing Iraq had acquired was for centrifuges to be used on uranium refinement when, in fact, the IAEA was pointing out that the tubes had no such utility. It was based on claims made by the agent Curveball, who had already given the British and German governments so many demonstrably-false claims that both London and Berlin were urgently warning Washington not to believe anything he said.

Never was the excuse that Iraq had used chemical weapons in the 1980s put forth as a rationale for the 2003 war.

And keep clinging to that whole "Maybe there really were vast stockpiles of WMD laying all over Iraq and somehow we just never managed to find them! We found Saddam! We found Osama! Both were living people who were mobile! But we couldn't find heaping piles of tons and tons of inert stuff that would be difficult to move! Still, that means nothing!" idea. It's nonsense, but apparently it makes you feel better.

PS - None of these points makes this load of nonsense about Iraqi WMD in 2003 one of 'history's greatest lies'. In the sweep of history, it's pretty minor. Yet still, colossally wrong.
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Old 10-31-2019, 07:06 AM
 
Location: Cebu, Philippines
5,881 posts, read 2,643,787 times
Reputation: 10770
The lie that has best served the chroniclers of history is "Obedience is a Virtue".
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Old 10-31-2019, 10:44 PM
 
Location: StlNoco Mo, where the woodbine twineth
7,970 posts, read 5,620,632 times
Reputation: 11096
Lies everywhere, politicians, preachers, weather forecasters and car salesmen.
I'm tired of all these lies.
I think I'll lie down for awhile. zzzzz
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Old 11-06-2019, 03:53 AM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
19,600 posts, read 23,260,470 times
Reputation: 27339
Quote:
Originally Posted by aliasfinn View Post
Lies everywhere, politicians, preachers, weather forecasters and car salesmen.
I'm tired of all these lies.
I think I'll lie down for awhile. zzzzz
Man was not constructed to handle the truth, thus the lies of politicians and preachers. And then there's deception which is a cousin to lying.

And, what we hate the most in others, we oftentimes see in ourselves.
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Old 11-06-2019, 11:19 AM
 
Location: New York Area
20,842 posts, read 8,105,984 times
Reputation: 15818
"Lie, lie, lie" - The Boxer, Simon & Garfunkel, 1970.
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Old 11-07-2019, 12:22 PM
 
13,697 posts, read 19,832,247 times
Reputation: 22850
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
"Lie, lie, lie" - The Boxer, Simon & Garfunkel, 1970.
Actually it's "Lie la lie, lie la la la lie lie" as in meaningless wordless lyrical fill-ins (Simon meant to put lyrics in for that part, but didn't have anything to add, so he just let it be, could have just as well been "da da da daaa da da da daaa"). Has nothing to do with "lies" as a theme except as an internal struggle with self-perception, loneliness, and lack of success . Great song, I love these lyrics:

I have squandered my resistance
For a pocket full of mumbles, such are promises
All lies and jests
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest


OK back to the topic.
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Old 11-07-2019, 12:30 PM
 
2,939 posts, read 646,435 times
Reputation: 2851
How about Custer being a hero? He was an idiot.
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Old 11-07-2019, 08:16 PM
 
Location: New York Area
20,842 posts, read 8,105,984 times
Reputation: 15818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Actually it's "Lie la lie, lie la la la lie lie" as in meaningless wordless lyrical fill-ins (Simon meant to put lyrics in for that part, but didn't have anything to add, so he just let it be, could have just as well been "da da da daaa da da da daaa"). Has nothing to do with "lies" as a theme except as an internal struggle with self-perception, loneliness, and lack of success . Great song, I love these lyrics:

I have squandered my resistance
For a pocket full of mumbles, such are promises
All lies and jests
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest


OK back to the topic.
Does anyone know The Boxer's extra verse: Begins with "well the years are rollin' by me they are rockin' evenly...."? If anyone wants I'll email the MP3.
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Old 11-07-2019, 08:18 PM
 
Location: New York Area
20,842 posts, read 8,105,984 times
Reputation: 15818
Quote:
Originally Posted by mascoma View Post
How about Custer being a hero? He was an idiot.
But his sidekick Colonel Sheridan was no idiot.
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Old 11-08-2019, 06:47 AM
 
13,697 posts, read 19,832,247 times
Reputation: 22850
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
Does anyone know The Boxer's extra verse: Begins with "well the years are rollin' by me they are rockin' evenly...."? If anyone wants I'll email the MP3.
I read it in wiki:
Now the years are rolling by me—
They are rockin' evenly.
I am older than I once was,
And younger than I'll be.
That's not unusual;
No, it isn't strange:
After changes upon changes
We are more or less the same;
After changes we are more or less the same.


I wonder why he left it out of the studio version?
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