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Old 06-05-2017, 12:19 PM
 
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50 years later, a reporter recalls the 6-Day War
Israelis Have Mixed Feelings About The 50th Anniversary Of The Six Day War : NPR
As 50th anniversary of Six Day War dawns, peace in Israeli-Palestinian conflict remains as elusive as ever | The Independent

Lots of attention is being given to the 50th Anniversary of the 6 Day War and its repercussions on the Middle East. Any thoughts on the matter?
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Old 06-05-2017, 02:21 PM
 
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Any thoughts in this forum will eventually lead to modern middle east politics.
My only comment is that it took one more trouncing by the IDF, the Yum Kipper War, before the Arab states learned there lesson - Israel was no pushover. The IDF by the way operated on this philosophy - they can not afford to lose ANY war. For them it would be the destruction of the country and potentially the wholesale slaughter of it's people. Their mobilization strategy is based on the Swiss model - basically every civilian of fighting age can be mobilized in times of war. It worked well, Israel was basically at war with 5 nations.

Fortunately relations have stabilized somewhat with Egypt and Jordan, at least there is no more open hostility. Unfortunately, Arab territories are still occupied from this war (except Sinai, which is a lesson here because it's basically a lawless region); and other Arab states, finding that open warfare doesn't work, have chosen a different strategy to kill Israelis - terrorism.
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Old 06-06-2017, 02:30 PM
 
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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The complicating thing is that Israel is a Jewish state, thus the conquered peoples weren't just incorporated. When the USA took a large chunk of Mexico the thousands of Mexican citizens living in that land became American citizens.
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Old 06-07-2017, 06:09 AM
 
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Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
The complicating thing is that Israel is a Jewish state, thus the conquered peoples weren't just incorporated. When the USA took a large chunk of Mexico the thousands of Mexican citizens living in that land became American citizens.
The Syrian and Lebanese residents of Golan Heights I believe were given Israeli citizenship, those that remained. That territory didn't have that many people living there anyways, most of the civilians fled back to Syria after the war.
Palestine has essentially always been occupied and are considered a self-governing province of Israel. Did they have British citizenship after WW1? Nope. After WW2 I think they were given Jordanian citizenship and were allowed to keep that citizenship after the 6 day war, although now they also issue passports under the identity of Palestine.
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Old 06-13-2017, 10:36 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
13,562 posts, read 10,286,680 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Any thoughts in this forum will eventually lead to modern middle east politics.
My only comment is that it took one more trouncing by the IDF, the Yum Kipper War, before the Arab states learned there lesson - Israel was no pushover. The IDF by the way operated on this philosophy - they can not afford to lose ANY war. For them it would be the destruction of the country and potentially the wholesale slaughter of it's people. Their mobilization strategy is based on the Swiss model - basically every civilian of fighting age can be mobilized in times of war. It worked well, Israel was basically at war with 5 nations.

Fortunately relations have stabilized somewhat with Egypt and Jordan, at least there is no more open hostility. Unfortunately, Arab territories are still occupied from this war (except Sinai, which is a lesson here because it's basically a lawless region); and other Arab states, finding that open warfare doesn't work, have chosen a different strategy to kill Israelis - terrorism.
There's another corollary - the 1967 Six Day War may have led to a bit of Israeli complacency leading up to the 1973 War - they were caught off guard by the suddenness of the Egyptian attacks. Intelligence reports leading up to the war were often erroneous and misleading. Afterwards, the Israelis changed their military command and intelligence structure to strengthen coordination of effort. They also took their foes a bit more seriously afterwards.

The Egyptians also got a bit of a psychological boost as well.

These days, the Arab combatants have more internal issues occupying their attention (such as Egypt and especially Syria), than about dealing with Israel.
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Old 06-14-2017, 06:17 AM
 
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Originally Posted by silverkris View Post
There's another corollary - the 1967 Six Day War may have led to a bit of Israeli complacency leading up to the 1973 War - they were caught off guard by the suddenness of the Egyptian attacks. Intelligence reports leading up to the war were often erroneous and misleading. Afterwards, the Israelis changed their military command and intelligence structure to strengthen coordination of effort. They also took their foes a bit more seriously afterwards.

The Egyptians also got a bit of a psychological boost as well.
Absolutely about the psychological boost, the Egyptians are taught that the Yom Kipper war was a military victory since early in the war the Egyptians crossed the Suez, even though there entire 3rd army was facing annihilation later on.

I was in Egypt several years ago and my guide said a funny thing, not about Yum Kipper but the Suez Crisis in the 50s: "that's when we defeated the U.S., England, and Israel in the Suez War". I am thinking to myself "huh?" but didn't say anything. The Suez crises, hardly a war, was a military defeat for Egypt, with the US taking no part of the military action (although Egypt was allowed to keep the canal.)
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Old 06-14-2017, 07:29 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Chava61 View Post
Egyptian President, Nasser, had been riding high ever since the Suez Crisis of 1956. During the Suez Crisis, Egypt successfully took the Suez Canal from the British. Egyptians were full of anger at the West. They believed the western imperial powers had subjugated them and kept them in a states of de facto colonialism. The Suez Canal was owned and run by the British despite the fact in ran through Egypt. Nasser's genuine accomplishment at forcing the British to abandon the canal should not be minimized. After accomplishing that goal, Nasser was very popular in his own country and riding high.

Egypt began accepting substantial military aid from the USSR. In the process, Egypt received hundreds of MIG fighter aircraft and hundreds of battle tanks. By the 1960's, Nasser was pushing towards a war with Israel. It was a war he never seriously contemplated losing. There were also plenty of internal pressures driving Nasser. There was a strong feeling of Arab Nationalism in Egypt, Syria, and Jordan. There was a belief that Israel simply was an adjunct of western imperialism. I believe many Arabs considered Israel simply a collection of Europeans that had taken up residence in Palestine.

Nasser continued to push and became more and more threatening. He moved units of his army and air force into the Sinai Desert. What Nasser seemed unable to grasp was by 1967, Israel possessed a small, but excellent military. Despite having been given a good supply of weapons by the USSR, little effort had been made to train Egyptian pilots.

Perhaps, on some level Nasser really believed that Israel would never fight. Maybe he thought if he was threatening enough the Jewish population of Israel would simply evacuate the country. However, his last move made war inevitable. He announced he was closing Israel's outlet to the Red Sea, the Gulf of Aqaba to Israeli shipping. This type of blockade is an act of war. By doing so, Nasser, in effect, declared war on Israel and gave them the green light for what would follow.

Meanwhile, the Syrians were making moves on Israel from the north. At that time, the Syrian Army occupied the Golan Heights. It was common for them to shell Israeli farmers with their artillery. Israel realized a war with Egypt would involve a war with Syria as well.

Meanwhile, in Jordan, something that was most unfortunate was taking place. Since 1948, Jordan had occupied portions of Jerusalem. Jordan's King Hussein presided over a poor desert country. Hussein secretly maintained covert relations with the Israel government in Tel Aviv. In fact, there are accounts that Hussein secretly visited Tel Aviv for confidential talks with the Israeli government. Hussein personally was not interested in a war with Israel and his armed forces were inadequate. The problem was he had a large Palestinian population in his country that did want war with Israel. Hussein was a King, a monarch, in an era when kings were largely vanishing in favor of popular governments. Nasser saw Hussein's vulnerability and exploited it. He appealed over Hussein's head to the Jordanian population. Reluctantly, Hussein saw that if war did break out with Israel, he would probably be dragged into it against his will. Jordan going to war with Israel would end up being one of the most ill-fated decisions ever.

After the closing of the Gulf of Aqaba to Israeli shipping, the Israeli government saw war as inevitable. Israel in 1967 was a small country indeed. The consensus of the government was that if they waited for the Arabs to attack them that there was a significant risk of the country being completely overrun. Thus, the idea of the preemptive or first strike became their strategy. In a desert war, the most critical element is air supremacy. The party who obtains and maintains of air space will be the winner. Israel rapidly made the decision to attack Egyptian and Syrian air bases with their entire air force.

The Israeli force struck these air bases and it was a complete surprise to the Arab nations. Few Egyptian and Syrian aircraft became airborne at all. Those that did rapidly learned their training left them hopelessly mismatched against Israeli pilots. It was the equivalent of a turkey shoot for the Israeli pilots. With a day or two, the Arab nations had no air force. Israel than launched a ground attack into the Sinai Desert which turned the Sinai into a death trap for Egyptian soldiers who were out in the open and nowhere to go. A similar attack on Syria rapidly resulted in the capture of the Golan Heights.

I turn again to Jordan. When King Hussein reluctantly chose to join Egypt and Syria in the war he gave Israelis the green light to retake the parts of Jerusalem occupied by the Jordanian Army. Some bitter street fighting took place. However, within a short time, the Israeli Army seized all of Jerusalem and what we call the area on the West Bank of the Jordan River that at that time belonged to Jordan. After the war, Jordan renounced any claims to the West Bank territory and left these instead to the Palestinian population that resided there. Had Jordan not entered this war, there would not be an issue over whether these territories should be returned or not.

I would say the war marked the beginning of a process of decay among the Arab states. No one seriously imagines they could beat Israel in a war anymore. Since 1967, Israel has developed atomic weapons which makes a conventional war like this one extremely unlikely. I extend my salute to Israel for standing up to aggressive nations that sought her destruction.
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Old 06-14-2017, 11:40 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Absolutely about the psychological boost, the Egyptians are taught that the Yom Kipper war was a military victory since early in the war the Egyptians crossed the Suez, even though there entire 3rd army was facing annihilation later on.

I was in Egypt several years ago and my guide said a funny thing, not about Yum Kipper but the Suez Crisis in the 50s: "that's when we defeated the U.S., England, and Israel in the Suez War". I am thinking to myself "huh?" but didn't say anything. The Suez crises, hardly a war, was a military defeat for Egypt, with the US taking no part of the military action (although Egypt was allowed to keep the canal.)
An odd perspective considering the US basically "sided" with Egypt and forced the UK, France, and Israel (what an unlikely Entente) to vacate their gains.

But that is what state run propaganda can still accomplish these days.
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