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Old 06-23-2017, 04:32 PM
 
9,329 posts, read 4,141,179 times
Reputation: 8224

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What do you think of the analogy?



The Reichstag fire, it goes almost without saying, will be a terrorist attack, and it will mark our sudden, obvious, and irreversible descent into autocracy. Here is what it looks like:

https://harpers.org/archive/2017/07/...ire-next-time/

Harper's
By Masha Gessen

 
Old 06-23-2017, 04:59 PM
 
7,800 posts, read 4,399,488 times
Reputation: 9438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarallel View Post
What do you think of the analogy?



The Reichstag fire, it goes almost without saying, will be a terrorist attack, and it will mark our sudden, obvious, and irreversible descent into autocracy. Here is what it looks like:

https://harpers.org/archive/2017/07/...ire-next-time/

Harper's
By Masha Gessen
Thank you for that fantastic article.
 
Old 06-23-2017, 06:09 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,119,848 times
Reputation: 21239
There is circular reasoning at work in the author's citing how few terrorist deaths there have been in America since 9/11 as proof of how we do not need to allow emergency powers to our executives. It is too easy to argue that the reason there have been so few deaths is that there has been overkill in our alertness and responses to threats.

The article is an extremely one sided view of the balancing act all nations face between permissiveness and security. Making ourselves safer requires surrendering some of our liberties. Making ourselves freer comes with making ourselves more vulnerable to predators. Neither extreme is acceptable, so we must make do with a compromising, middle path solution. It is not glamorous, it doesn't come with passionate rhetoric like in the linked article, it is just a bland pragmatic necessity.
 
Old 06-23-2017, 06:17 PM
 
10,275 posts, read 10,338,537 times
Reputation: 10644
I think it could happen. If the current administration continues to flounder, and if the criminal investigations pile up, I could see a "Reichstag"-type incident. It's at least plausible.
 
Old 06-25-2017, 10:14 PM
 
Location: Northern Maine
5,466 posts, read 3,064,269 times
Reputation: 8011
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
I think it could happen. If the current administration continues to flounder, and if the criminal investigations pile up, I could see a "Reichstag"-type incident. It's at least plausible.
I could make a case for marshall law to stop all the fake investigations in search of a crime.
The current administration isn't floundering, the media is though as their little socialist empire crumbles around them.
 
Old 06-25-2017, 11:14 PM
 
4,205 posts, read 4,456,008 times
Reputation: 10164
As for analogy - I'm reminded of:
The Big Bamboozle: 9-11 and the War On Terror by Phillip Marshall
Operation Gladio by Paul L Williams








Constant conflict leads to great accumulation of riches to certain elements of the 'ruling' class and their cronies.
 
Old 06-26-2017, 01:27 AM
 
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
10,930 posts, read 11,723,439 times
Reputation: 13170
I am not a Trump supporter, but I think it is a telling sign of the large division that exists now in American politics and, more generally, in American society, that Harpers would publish such a shrill commentary on the times. Sadly, the nation seems to be approaching the political and societal divisions that preceded the Civil War.

But I wouldn't trace it back to 9-11. More important is the abandonment of the white (and black) working class of the working class by the Democratic Party. It was a central part of the New Deal coalition. Slowly, but surely, the Democrats abandoned the working class and relied more and more on its rainbow coalition, and as it did the "silent majority" was pushed, like sheep to slaughter, into the Republican Party by the Democrats. Trump promised these people that he would make America great again. In fact, he and his party are in the process of liquidating them.

The Democratic Party is in complete disarray and seems blind to this fact. I wonder what Richard Hofstadter would think?
 
Old 06-26-2017, 06:08 AM
 
14,993 posts, read 23,889,546 times
Reputation: 26523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarallel View Post
What do you think of the analogy?



The Reichstag fire, it goes almost without saying, will be a terrorist attack, and it will mark our sudden, obvious, and irreversible descent into autocracy. Here is what it looks like:

https://harpers.org/archive/2017/07/...ire-next-time/

Harper's
By Masha Gessen
It's not an "analogy", there is no comparison....and to call it such trivializes the evil that was Nazi Germany.

I mean really, this is just yellow journalism. Sensationalized, exaggerated. We have seen this before, they can grab any number of events in history and use it to justify the topic of today - which is simply enough politics. Look at the melodramatic intro: "our SUDDEN, OBVIOUS, and IRREVERSIBLE DESCENT INTO AUTOCRACY". Oh my God, so scary!

It's no mystery of the intent of this post when you see where the poster spends her time. Let's move this crap to the P&C forum where it belongs.

IN BEFORE THE LOCK!
 
Old 06-26-2017, 05:49 PM
 
9,329 posts, read 4,141,179 times
Reputation: 8224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
There is circular reasoning at work in the author's citing how few terrorist deaths there have been in America since 9/11 as proof of how we do not need to allow emergency powers to our executives. It is too easy to argue that the reason there have been so few deaths is that there has been overkill in our alertness and responses to threats.

The article is an extremely one sided view of the balancing act all nations face between permissiveness and security. Making ourselves safer requires surrendering some of our liberties. Making ourselves freer comes with making ourselves more vulnerable to predators. Neither extreme is acceptable, so we must make do with a compromising, middle path solution. It is not glamorous, it doesn't come with passionate rhetoric like in the linked article, it is just a bland pragmatic necessity.

I agree that it's not an impeccable article, and there's certainly room to argue. Nevertheless, I think it's a smart, cautionary piece - and, unfortunately, in times of crisis, people forget that, as you say, we should look for a middle path.
 
Old 06-26-2017, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
29,218 posts, read 22,361,490 times
Reputation: 23858
Most historians agree that the Nazis set fire to the Reichstag.

It wasn't done as an act of terrorism. It was set so that Hitler had a viable excuse to call for martial law nationwide. Once

Germany was under martial law, it was under the control of Hitler, with no opposition from the democratically elected representatives in the government any more. With nothing to stand in the way of Hitler, the German democracy fell into dictatorship.

But the act was not one of terror. It was all political. A young mentally impaired man was found to use as a scapegoat, and he was executed for starting the fire. But the real terrorism of the Nazi regime only began shortly afterward, after Hitler no longer had any resistance politically due to the fire and its aftermath.

There are many ways a democracy/republic can be subverted. Terrorism isn't one, as it seldom works. Resistance to terrorism always arises. The best ways are all those that the voters can get behind and approve. That's when politics overcomes all else, including the common man's patriotism. In fact, patriotism becomes a tool for subversion.
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