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Old 09-24-2017, 10:13 PM
 
Location: The High Desert
16,078 posts, read 10,738,506 times
Reputation: 31470

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy100 View Post
I think you're over emphasizing the "slaves running away to the north thing".
That may have been the pretext of the South thinking the federal government wasn't doing its part to uphold state law and therefore leaving the union since the union wasn't doing anything to benefit the south anyway, but overall it was a much smaller issue in comparison to the breakdown of the Missouri Compromise. Knowing that all future territorial states can be representative of the opposing party at the national level who can then further diminish the power of your region by national political majority is a much bigger deal than a couple runaway slaves.
I agree. The runaway problem was a minor thing compared to the main event. When the southern elite looked into the future they saw that slavery was doomed if they stayed in the Union in an increasingly hostile political reality. In all likelihood there would be no more slave states added to the Union and they lose their ability to fend off anti-slavery policy and legislation. Preservation of slavery was their one and only cause. In that context, Lincoln's commitment to preserving the Union was as much an anti-slavery commitment as it was pro-Union. The two things could not coexist much longer.
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Old 09-25-2017, 01:05 AM
 
1,047 posts, read 1,013,764 times
Reputation: 1817
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy100 View Post
I think you're over emphasizing the "slaves running away to the north thing".
That may have been the pretext of the South thinking the federal government wasn't doing its part to uphold state law and therefore leaving the union since the union wasn't doing anything to benefit the south anyway, but overall it was a much smaller issue in comparison to the breakdown of the Missouri Compromise. Knowing that all future territorial states can be representative of the opposing party at the national level who can then further diminish the power of your region by national political majority is a much bigger deal than a couple runaway slaves.
Henry Louis Gates would have no reason to downplay the number of slaves who escaped to freedom and he seems to think the number would have been between 25,000 and 40,000 during the entire history of the United States, and says the highest "reasonable" number might be 50,000. He also makes the point that most runaway slaves were fleeing to some other place in the slave states--about 50,000 per year. Nearly all slaves that made it to the North were young males. On slave schedules done at the 1850 and 1860 censuses there is a box to be checked for cases in which the owner or overseer reported that a slave had escaped during the last year, and it is extremely rare to find any such case reported, at least in the many Deep South forms I have seen.

Myths About the Underground Railroad | African American History Blog | The African Americans: Many Rivers to Cross
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Old 09-25-2017, 03:19 AM
 
Location: Warren, OH
2,744 posts, read 4,233,451 times
Reputation: 6503
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
State's rights to preserve slavery. Slavery was the cornerstone of the Confederacy.
BINGO.

Now move along. Nothing left to discuss because this is fact.
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Old 09-25-2017, 04:25 AM
 
9,613 posts, read 6,944,788 times
Reputation: 6842
Quote:
Originally Posted by deb100 View Post
Henry Louis Gates would have no reason to downplay the number of slaves who escaped to freedom and he seems to think the number would have been between 25,000 and 40,000 during the entire history of the United States, and says the highest "reasonable" number might be 50,000. He also makes the point that most runaway slaves were fleeing to some other place in the slave states--about 50,000 per year. Nearly all slaves that made it to the North were young males. On slave schedules done at the 1850 and 1860 censuses there is a box to be checked for cases in which the owner or overseer reported that a slave had escaped during the last year, and it is extremely rare to find any such case reported, at least in the many Deep South forms I have seen.

Myths About the Underground Railroad | African American History Blog | The African Americans: Many Rivers to Cross
Becoming a new country isn’t the solution to that problem.
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Old 09-25-2017, 04:26 AM
 
9,613 posts, read 6,944,788 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warren zee View Post
BINGO.

Now move along. Nothing left to discuss because this is fact.
That’s not what this thread is about.
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Old 09-25-2017, 11:46 AM
 
18,129 posts, read 25,278,015 times
Reputation: 16835
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunGrins View Post
Preservation of slavery was their one and only cause. In that context, Lincoln's commitment to preserving the Union was as much an anti-slavery commitment as it was pro-Union. The two things could not coexist much longer.
Agree,
so the Civil War was fought over slavery (preservation of slavery)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy100 View Post
Becoming a new country isn’t the solution to that problem.
Of course it is,
they would deploy their army to the border and put walls, fences, etc.

Last edited by Dopo; 09-25-2017 at 11:59 AM..
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Old 09-25-2017, 12:12 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
9,169 posts, read 13,244,033 times
Reputation: 10141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopo View Post
The civil war was fought over slavery (slaves running away to the North and the South getting mad about it)

It wasn't fought to stop slavery
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy100 View Post
I think you're over emphasizing the "slaves running away to the north thing".
That may have been the pretext of the South thinking the federal government wasn't doing its part to uphold state law and therefore leaving the union since the union wasn't doing anything to benefit the south anyway, but overall it was a much smaller issue in comparison to the breakdown of the Missouri Compromise. Knowing that all future territorial states can be representative of the opposing party at the national level who can then further diminish the power of your region by national political majority is a much bigger deal than a couple runaway slaves.
I agree with Ziggy. I think you are overemphasizing the slaves running away to freedom as a cause of the Civil War. However I do think slaves running away may have been a contributing factor. Like I said slavery was both a direct cause and indirect cause in the Civil War. Slaves escaping to the Free States and Canada was probably more of an indirect cause, a long term irritant that was hurting relations between the North and South.
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Old 09-25-2017, 02:31 PM
 
18,129 posts, read 25,278,015 times
Reputation: 16835
Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
I agree with Ziggy. I think you are overemphasizing the slaves running away to freedom as a cause of the Civil War. However I do think slaves running away may have been a contributing factor. Like I said slavery was both a direct cause and indirect cause in the Civil War. Slaves escaping to the Free States and Canada was probably more of an indirect cause, a long term irritant that was hurting relations between the North and South.
If it wasn't that, then what was it?
That's what all the secession articles say
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Old 09-25-2017, 02:33 PM
Status: "119 N/A" (set 22 days ago)
 
12,956 posts, read 13,671,429 times
Reputation: 9693
Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
I agree with Ziggy. I think you are overemphasizing the slaves running away to freedom as a cause of the Civil War. However I do think slaves running away may have been a contributing factor. Like I said slavery was both a direct cause and indirect cause in the Civil War. Slaves escaping to the Free States and Canada was probably more of an indirect cause, a long term irritant that was hurting relations between the North and South.
You might be familiar with some of the old slave runaway posters. One poster has a reward of $2500.00 for the return of maybe three or four slaves. That is roughly the equivalent of 16 years wages for the average farm worker in the south. The slow trickle of slaves running off was a major concern. There is a well known case of southerners forcing the US government to spend over a million dollars for the return of a single slave.
It was more than an irritant. In today's dollars a conservative number for the price of a slave is over $23,000 per slave but the real problem was the loss of earning income of that slave. That figure is closer to $200,000. It didn't take a mass exodus for southerners to start to panic and try to change laws to force the national government to intervene on their behalf for the return of slaves in the north.
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Old 09-25-2017, 03:42 PM
 
9,613 posts, read 6,944,788 times
Reputation: 6842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopo View Post
If it wasn't that, then what was it?
That's what all the secession articles say
Again, you’re not seeing the forest through the trees. You’re getting distracted by the word slavery.
Slavery itself isn’t the lessons learned. It’s just a 19th century political topic which is useless in trying to avoid similar future conflicts and making the same mistakes.
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