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how I hate when P&C forum posters venture out of there gutter of a forum
What's wrong with my posts?
Not a thing, that was directed at the other poster, Mr. Magoo or whatever his name is.
Thanks.
However I post on POC a fair amount. About the only place I'm not regularly hit with infractions or bans. Even though my posting style is very mild I have been infracted/banned for argumentative posts on Current Events; even when as argumentative as this post.
Mr. Magoo - S. Korea can survive an invasion on there own I think, but it will be a mess. They have a strong military - the fact that you didn't know that back when you made some posts earlier indicates some level of ignorance on the politics and geography of Korea on your part. The problem is a whole lot of people will die in the mean time, North Korea can overrun the majority of Korea quickly and it would result in another "Pusan perimeter" event, Seoul is close to the border and can be flattened by conventional artillery shooting from across the border. A whole lot of people will die very quickly.
American troops are not there for defense really, but as a deterrent. North Korea knows if they try to pierce that barrier of Americans on the DMZ, killing a bunch of American troops in the process, it doesn't mean simply losing another war and retreating back to the DMZ, but self-destruction. Actually, it might be time to pull out American troops, but it must be done carefully and with the proper structure in place for immediate support to Korea - again to prevent war.
The real shame resides in the American failure to teach history to her children.
I grew up when history was still taught, beginning in the 5th grade as a requirement for graduation.
History says it's a good thing Korea was fought to a draw. If Truman had not decided to keep it a land war fought with soldiers, Korea would have been the first atomic war, and there were American and Russian Generals who wanted that war.
A lot. MacArthur was so intent on deploying nukes Truman was forced to pull him out of the field, fly him back home, and was forced to fire his best General when MacArthur declared he would disobey the direct orders of his Commander In Chief.
Try to imagine what would have happened if Seoul evaporated in a nuclear explosion with close to a million Chinese troops massed on the border itching to join the fight.
Pyongyang would have been the next city to evaporate, for sure. And it could have been the first, not the second. MacArthur planned to drop nukes on the Chinese and the Russians as the next step to winning the Korean War.
And the Russians wanted nothing more than to show off their nukes. They planned to wipe out Okinawa as their own first step to ending the war.
Korea was the most dangerous nuclear flash point in world history.
Cuba was the next, and it's threat was nowhere as dangerous; the nukes were being loaded in the bomb bays of bombers when Truman fired MacArthur and commanded the aircraft to stand down.
Up on the northern border, the Russians were loading their own bombers. Both sides were eager for the atomic fight.
The real shame resides in the American failure to teach history to her children.
I grew up when history was still taught, beginning in the 5th grade as a requirement for graduation.
History says it's a good thing Korea was fought to a draw. If Truman had not decided to keep it a land war fought with soldiers, Korea would have been the first atomic war, and there were American and Russian Generals who wanted that war.
A lot. MacArthur was so intent on deploying nukes Truman was forced to pull him out of the field, fly him back home, and was forced to fire his best General when MacArthur declared he would disobey the direct orders of his Commander In Chief.
Try to imagine what would have happened if Seoul evaporated in a nuclear explosion with close to a million Chinese troops massed on the border itching to join the fight.
Pyongyang would have been the next city to evaporate, for sure. And it could have been the first, not the second. MacArthur planned to drop nukes on the Chinese and the Russians as the next step to winning the Korean War.
And the Russians wanted nothing more than to show off their nukes. They planned to wipe out Okinawa as their own first step to ending the war.
Korea was the most dangerous nuclear flash point in world history.
Cuba was the next, and it's threat was nowhere as dangerous; the nukes were being loaded in the bomb bays of bombers when Truman fired MacArthur and commanded the aircraft to stand down.
Up on the northern border, the Russians were loading their own bombers. Both sides were eager for the atomic fight.
Mac also wanted Chiang kai-shek to invade china with the help of our navy and landing craft..............
Mr. Magoo - S. Korea can survive an invasion on there own I think, but it will be a mess. They have a strong military - the fact that you didn't know that back when you made some posts earlier indicates some level of ignorance on the politics and geography of Korea on your part. The problem is a whole lot of people will die in the mean time, North Korea can overrun the majority of Korea quickly and it would result in another "Pusan perimeter" event, Seoul is close to the border and can be flattened by conventional artillery shooting from across the border. A whole lot of people will die very quickly.
American troops are not there for defense really, but as a deterrent. North Korea knows if they try to pierce that barrier of Americans on the DMZ, killing a bunch of American troops in the process, it doesn't mean simply losing another war and retreating back to the DMZ, but self-destruction. Actually, it might be time to pull out American troops, but it must be done carefully and with the proper structure in place for immediate support to Korea - again to prevent war.
While I certainly agree that a Korean War redux would be a humanitarian catastrophe, and unpredictably destabilizing, the notion that the North can obliterate Seoul and overrun most of the peninsula vastly overstates North Korea capabilities.
It is true that the North Korean Army outnumbers that of South Korea by a factor of two-to-one. But it is telling that they do so despite having half the population of the South. In short, South Korea can be more selective and field an army that begins with choicer recruits. But that's just the beginning. In terms of weapons and training, the South vastly outclasses the North. This is the natural outcome of possessing an economy several times that of your foe. Consider armor. North Korea relies heavily on T-55s, a design from the 1940s. It's rounded out with some T-62s (Soviet, circa the 1960s) and Korean clones of the latter. The South Koreans have modern indigenous designs as well as upgraded Pattons. Is there any doubt that one of the top 15 economies in the world produces far superior tanks than a country that can't even crack the top 100 global economies? And that's aside from considering the productivity of the South's competitive markets versus the North's make-a-tank-or-we'll-kill-you-and-your-family methodology? So it goes with the rest of the army.
Then there are the air forces. South Korea possesses nearly 200 F-15s, F-16s, F-35s. North Korea? 18 MiG-29s, 34-Su25s, and that's the cream of that crop, rounded out by a bunch of mostly obsolete Soviet stuff and, even worse, Chinese clones of the latter. A microcosm of the respective inventories. And training! How much flying time do the think the impoverished North Korean pilots get? How maintained are those MiGs? And the South has AWACs. And tankers. The North Koreans just dream of such possibilities.
More to the point, a hypothetical reprise of the Korean War assumes the North on the offensive and the South playing defense. And the starved, under-equipped, under-trained force with under-maintained weaponry is supposed to chase the better-equipped, better-trained force with better-maintained equipment to the edge of the peninsula, despite the latter having the advantage of playing defense? And the South would rule the skies, with the South Korean Air Force would maul the North's troops, their armor, their trucks, their guns. Successful offensive actions need significant superiority. The North does not have that. Even the guns trained on Seoul would soon be taken out with South Korea ruling the skies. It must be noted that every gun dedicated to terrorizing Seoul is a gun accomplishing nothing militarily.
Of course, there's always the matter of chemical munitions and nuclear weapons. While it's fashionably lazy to armchair-psychologist the supposed insanity of North Korean leadership, the reality is that it is anything but. It pushes the envelope but carefully toes the line of self-preservation. The use of nukes is indirectly suicidal and results in North Korea being turned to glass Chemical weapons are of limited tactical utility, being primarily terror weapons. They're not going to carry the day for the North. It is highly doubtful that Seoul, much less most of the rest of the South, could be taken.
And this is all assuming no intervention by the U.S., except in the case of the use of nuclear weapons by the North.
A big tragedy of the Korean War were the 7800 missing in action (MIA) from the US that were never accounted for. Many times more than the Vietnam War aftermath. Of course, there were exponentially more Korean MIA from both sides, and also from many other countries that had forces in the Korean war.
My step-father's brother was a young gunner in a bomber shot down over N. Korea during the war. He survived the bail out jump, but many of the crew did not. He was captured and became a POW, but his name was never reported by N. Korea or China. Eventually, he was taken to a POW camp in Manchuria (northwest China). His family did not know he survived the war until after hostilities were over and surviving POWs were turned over to the US. When he arrived at the rehabilitation center for the just-released POWs, he thin as a rail, 5' 10", weighed around 110 pounds. Most of the POWs needed careful nourishment and medical attention to restore their health before being transported back home. Many had long hospital stays after that.
A big tragedy of the Korean War were the 7800 missing in action (MIA) from the US that were never accounted for. Many times more than the Vietnam War aftermath. Of course, there were exponentially more Korean MIA from both sides, and also from many other countries that had forces in the Korean war.
My step-father's brother was a young gunner in a bomber shot down over N. Korea during the war. He survived the bail out jump, but many of the crew did not. He was captured and became a POW, but his name was never reported by N. Korea or China. Eventually, he was taken to a POW camp in Manchuria (northwest China). His family did not know he survived the war until after hostilities were over and surviving POWs were turned over to the US. When he arrived at the rehabilitation center for the just-released POWs, he thin as a rail, 5' 10", weighed around 110 pounds. Most of the POWs needed careful nourishment and medical attention to restore their health before being transported back home. Many had long hospital stays after that.
Curious on this story if you know what aircraft he got shot in? My father flew a B-26 Invader, a light 3 man bomber. From him and other readings - if your plane went down in N. Korea is was almost a death sentence - first the mountanous terrain (or the ice cold Sea of Japan), then if villagers or N. Korean soldiers caught you it was usually instant execution. Villagers would beat you to death, N. Korean soldiers would shoot you on sight. Ironically the best bet would be to be captured by Chinese, where you would be subject to brutal conditions and brain washing, but they would keep you alive. I remember my father saying Chinese would take your shoes first, to keep you from running away.
My father carried the usual government issue handgun on his first few missions but after that he stopped carrying it as he figured his chances of survival if shot down was so minimal, and it was simply too heavy. They also had a "chit" they carried with some money and Korean and Chinese language saying in so many words if you help me you will get more money.
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